CV 188 Brandee Spillman

November 28, 2022

CV 188 Brandee Spillman

Promo Intro:

Honey Smith Walls 0:02

Friends, you’re going to hear a real life story today from our friend, Brandy Spillman, who’s an Okie like me. And I just want you to consider deeply the life experience she’s had as a woman serving your country. Thank you for joining us today.


Honey Smith Walls 0:00

Welcome to season three of the Cannaba Verum podcast, the cannabis truth podcast. I speak the language of cannabis freely and uncensored while educating my audience on safe use of this live plant therapy. You should know what’s in your cannabis. What’s good and what’s not. It does not come with an FDA stamp of approval yet.

Using cannabis mindfully as medication is a different concept in Western healthcare philosophy, specifically the past 100 years. There’s a lot to learn and reconsider. The information you’ll find here comes straight from the scientists and clinicians doing the work and reporting their findings in real time through various live online outlets. The scientific truth of cannabis is finally getting out and is wide open for all to see at respected medical sites like and JAMA, the Journal of American Medical Association (

I’m right there in the thick of it with all those titans of medicine as a fly on the wall. Because I’m not a doctor. I didn’t go to med school. I did take dozens of private cannabis courses offered by cannabis expert scientists online over the past few years and slowly began to see and understand the bigger picture.

Well, I can talk to people all day long about cannabis… and hopefully inspire them to research the facts as we know them today.

Cannabis is an amazing alternative in health remedies that can reportedly alleviate typical disease problems and troubling side effects caused by synthetic prescriptions. This is Honey Smith Walls, a 21st century cannabis shaman… not a doctor… not a scientist. Raised by nuns and wolves in the verdant cattle pastures of the Oklahoma oil fields. I’m here to amplify the truth of this great big story and language of cannabis in historical, political and scientific terms… so you can make educated decisions about the medicine you choose to ingest.


Seg 1

Honey Smith Walls 0:10

Brandee this is Honey. Yeah,  I’m telling you I’m sitting here just kind of really anxious to hear your voice and to hear your Tulsa accent… I… all of a sudden got real homesick for Oklahoma.

Brandee Spillman  0:28

And it does bring out a little southern accent.

Honey Smith Walls 0:33


Brandee Spillman  0:34

…when you start talking to each other

Honey Smith Walls 0:36

Yeah, it does. I’ve watched my kid go back home you know, and he’s been gone for as long as I have and when he came back, it was like, Whoa, there’s that accent I didn’t understand everybody else heard so much from me when I first came out to Florida. So have you always been in Tulsa, Brandee?

Brandee Spillman  0:57

Actually, I grew up north of here in Sand Springs, which is a suburb of Tulsa out in Osage County. Yeah. So but yes, I’ve lived here my entire life other than brief periods of living somewhere else and in the military.

So I was in the Army Reserves. I joined when I was in 17. Before I was out of high school, went in, you know, to help with money for education. And then I was actually in a medical unit. And so the active military had really scaled back. Their medical was, you know, medical units were filled. So I was in a medical field unit and we got activated in the first Gulf War.  So I served in that, through college.

Honey Smith Walls 1:49

Oh, honey, thank you for your service. I appreciate it. What’s your overall summary of that experience, if you don’t mind sharing…

Brandee Spillman  2:04

Serving in the military?

Honey Smith Walls 2:07

Yeah. And, you know,  the whole medical aspect of it and having to go over and those years that you served…I’m sure you learned a lot.

Brandee Spillman  2:19

I did. There are positives from the experience. You know, I don’t know if I would do things the same way again, but you know, there are definitely things that I learned about myself and about others. And, you know, if I have someone come and ask me, what do I think about them going into the military? I don’t take that lightly. Because that’s, you know… it’s deep.

Honey Smith Walls 2:41

My own kid went into the Navy… you could have bowled me over with a feather because, you know, I’m peace-lovin hippie and my flower child is going into the Navy. Are you kidding? So he went… he met the love of his life. They got married, they had four kids, and now I’ve got two grandkids going into the service. One just finished boot camp in Navy and the other one’s going into Marines as soon as he graduates in the spring.

So these four kids grew up with two Navy parents. So they’ve got the advantage, you know, of going into the service with all the stories their parents told and the positive aspects as well as some of those negative things too. You know, they served on on board a ship for five years.

Brandee Spillman  3:37

Yeah, I mean, that’s my thing…  if someone is thinking about going into the military, I want them to go in, eyes wide open. You know, I had many family members that served over the years and you know, some of them had already passed on and so I didn’t have the luxury of speaking with them. But you want to hear the good and the bad so you know what you’re getting into.

Honey Smith Walls 4:05

Yeah, to be prepared. So what led you darling, if you don’t mind telling us… what led you into cannabis?

Brandee Spillman  4:13

Well, part of that experience, that’s why I say there’s good and bad… yeah, for real. So I do suffer with symptoms of PTSD. And, you know, eventually those combined with just life. Life gets more complicated as you go along. I mean, I was probably 18 or between 18 and 19, when, you know, I actually had to go overseas and as life gets more complicated, you see those symptoms come out more.

Or at least that’s how it happened with me. And at first I used alcohol to kind of combat those issues. One of the main things being anxiety… and then, having a lot of trouble sleeping, and at the time I just didn’t understand how alcohol worked with the body… like it really doesn’t lead to a more restful sleep.

Honey Smith Walls 5:21

Yeah, they don’t teach alcohol like that. Yeah, don’t try alcoholism on human beings in Science 101 in high school.

Brandee Spillman  5:31

Right. As you know,  I went along, and it got more complicated. My drinking became heavier with alcohol as that sometimes happens with people,

Honey Smith Walls 5:46

Easy, cheap and available. Yeah. And legal.

Brandee Spillman  5:50

Yes. And when you start using it like in a medicating way, then dependency, it’s just a matter of time.

So I was just a high functioning alcoholic for probably well over a decade at least, and it became where it was impacting my life and the people who care about me and love me and so I actually went into rehab for alcohol in 2015.

That was the first time I ever received any kind of counseling about any of my life experiences, some which Oh, my God, were more traumatic than others.

Yes. So I think through that process, I tried to really understand what were the underlying things that I used alcohol for and you know, once I learned that… I started looking for a more natural way. Alternatives to combat those symptoms. Yeah. Without hurting yourself.

Yes. So it first led me to CBD and I had really just, I had never studied about it before. I’m an accountant by trade. And so you know, you don’t take as much science in school. I’ve always been into health and fitness. You know, being in the military. Or in the fitness I played basketball and soccer growing up… a real avid sports fan.

So you know, I first started down the road of CBD, and was learning about that just informally taking courses… not really with intent of getting a certification. It was just for my own geek knowledge. Right? Yep.

And then, you know, legalization started being a real thing here in Oklahoma, which, you know, right up there with gay marriage which I never thought that would happen here.

So, once that started happening, I had already been traveling a lot where I had been in states or in places where it was recreational. And so there I would have the chance to try something different with a high THC. Yeah. And then I was like, okay, that’s the ticket. For me and my sleep disturbances it needed to be over point three. Yeah. And so once cannabis legalized here, you know, that’s how I became interested… really, in forming a company.

Honey Smith Walls 8:43

So, did you go through Greenleaf and Coursera and, you know, all of those private science companies to learn about cannabis? That’s who I went through too, and then I found Dustin Sulak, Dr. Sulak and his Healer course. Have you seen that?

Brandee Spillman  9:07

I have. Yeah, no, I’m not going to name who… but like, it’s one of the ones that would come up first in the search for someone new trying to learn about cannabis… Well, yeah, but I’m very familiar where you’ve been receiving your training and I just… You don’t know how much I look up to what is being done there. I mean, if  I had all the funding in the world, I would want my website to be just like  It’s just a really great resource and it’s funny because I only ran on to that maybe a year and a half ago. You know, you’re talking about

Honey Smith Walls 9:51

The site is exquisite, isn’t it?

Brandee Spillman  9:56

Yes. I mean, that’s my dream… is to have a website like that for patients.

Honey Smith Walls 10:03

Wow. Well, that’s a beautiful dream. And it looks like you’re already living a pretty big dream. I mean, like you said, it wasn’t that long ago when all cannabis was illegal in Oklahoma. And still is in some states… completely illegal. You know,

Brandee Spillman  10:26

It’s crazy because like, I started taking those courses and everything happened so fast that, you know, I didn’t even get to finish all the courses! I started having to learn in real time. Like I’m reading for the moment of what we’re trying to do, but, I’ve just been, you know, ever since it legalized here and really prior to that, I mean, I’ve spent the last four years now just reading constantly. A lot of times it ends up being more article based than books just because of my time constraints but just reading nonstop, you know, there’s so much to learn and I just feel like I will forever be a student of the plant.

Honey Smith Walls 11:12

I feel exactly the same way. I really do. The the news just left my my nightly, my daily schedule… I had to stop watching the news. And I would watch for maybe an hour in the morning an hour in the evening. I don’t have time for that anymore. So yeah, it’s kind of a race to get the knowledge in us… is what it feels like to me. To just to catch up with scientists, you know, or to produce the things that we want. And the the amazing part of it all is that there’s still yet 1000s of compounds in this plant yet to discover.

Brandee Spillman  11:55

Yes, and that’s a big thing that people don’t understand. Yeah, like I wanted the issues that Nicole and I face here… Nicole is my business partner, Nicole Cantu…and here as a full spec company is all the false advertising that goes on and all the miscommunication to the patient that goes on and like you said, you know, people start combining isolates together and then throwing terpenes in and most of these companies are not seeking a scientist to guide them.

Honey Smith Walls 12:42

That scares the hell out of me.

Brandee Spillman  12:45

And I mean, by the same token, we don’t have a chemist on staff guiding us, but the way we approach things is differently because we’re taking the plant as it is, and extracting as many of the cannabinoids or the all the compounds and terpenes that we can, out of that particular plant. We’re not trying to piece a million things together.

So I’ve had people say, Well, you know, our product is full spectrum because we’re putting a bunch of different cannabinoids in these terpenes together. Well, what the patients don’t understand is…there’s so much more in a full spec – properly extracted product that you may be getting, that science doesn’t even know about, but yes, it’s impacting how that medicine is working within you.

Honey Smith Walls 13:40

Yeah, I really fear the production of synthetic cannabinoids and terpenes as well as all of the other alcohols and all that stuff and esters and junk that you know, we can’t even hardly comprehend. My mind is just searching for terminology at this point. You know, to help keep it in a place where our audience can understand… but my audience is pretty savvy.

I talk about the science of cannabis all the time to them, and we stand on a big huge soapbox… contamination. And so I sing about the contamination in cannabis all the time to my audience because of what happened to me and what’s happened to other people who already have exacerbated inflammatory immunology issues. The molds and mildews and just natural byproducts that grow up in cannabis from the way it’s grown can be really very problematic for those of us with immune deficiencies.

So we’ve got to be careful about what we’re ingesting. And if you’re not cautious about that, it’s easy to harm yourself. And our whole point is compassion for the human being to do no harm, to help alleviate what hurts and what aches and the pain… right? Yes. So how did you come to create Bison Extracts?

Brandee Spillman  15:21

Alright, people are sometimes shocked to learn that Nicole and I, my business partner, and co-founder of Bison, and all the Bison brands. We met through a blind introduction. I mean when I say I was you know, kind of just taking courses for myself to learn about cannabis. I literally was sitting up in the stands at one of my kid’s basketball games.

Another mom saw me with my laptop and asked what I was studying about? And I told her, you know, I’m trying to learn about this for myself and all the legalization stuff buzzing around. I’m an accountant. Maybe I’ll get into it in a different way… than I am now.

I ended up… I just went for it. But she was like, Oh, I have a friend that’s interested in that and thinking about getting into it. I can set up a meeting… and I was kind of like, yeah, I’ll go… Sure….not really thinking that I’m going to do something…

But we met and we are both so passionate about it that we spent probably a little over a month kind of just doing due diligence about different business models. You know, whether it be extraction or dispensary, and then we were like… no, extraction is the thing if we were going to do it… it was just researching independently… coming together… kind of taking that time to see if we could work with each other. And, you know, after that… after spending that time together, we’re just like, are we gonna go for this or not? And we did.

Honey Smith Walls 17:23

I don’t know that the general public understands how courageous you women are. Oh my god.

Brandee Spillman  17:27

Well, working in cannabis is very stressful. So it’s already very very stressful, even if you’re well equipped and so to do it with someone that you have never met, it’s like an arranged marriage almost…

We really work well together. And so that’s just been a real blessing. So we just went for it. That’s all there is to it that I can say… the due diligence process, narrowing down if we were doing extraction, what would we pick… I mean, we’re gonna do it right and both of us were real big fans of co2 extraction.

We wanted to create high quality medicinally focused products and in looking at the various extraction methods, we just found co2 extraction stood out not only because you know you can tune the temperature and the pressure to extract volatile cannabinoids present in the plant… that other methods maybe can’t, but you can also run subcritical to pull the terpenes which have their own big medicinal role to play in the effectiveness of the plant infusion or product infusions. And I know you know that because I listened to your whole thing on terpenes… actually twice.

Honey Smith Walls 19:06

Thank you, Brandee. I appreciate that.


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Seg 2

Honey Smith Walls 0:06

Hey Brandi, it sounds like I have Yeah. Okay. Oh yeah, you sound great.

Brandee Spillman  0:13

Okay, so I don’t I don’t know where I started fading out.

Honey Smith Walls 0:16

Okay, so well I do. So you were telling us about making your choice in the lab on how you wanted to present your products with co2 extraction and the reasons why…

Brandee Spillman  0:35

So start from kind of maybe the beginning if that’s what you want.

Honey Smith Walls 0:39

Oh sure… go ahead, honey, because there was no time limit. You know, I’ll turn this into several episodes if we chat for a long time. So there’s no time limit. We’re all just interested in what you have to say. And learning about your products and getting them to us. So tell us tell us… how did it start? How did you get… how did you… how how, how? So many questions!

Brandee Spillman  1:05

Yeah, so Nicole and I wanted to create high quality medicinally focused products. So in looking at all the methods available at the time, we just found co2 extraction stood out. Not only could you tune the temperature and pressure to extract volatile cannabinoids present in the plant that other methods maybe could not, but a big thing is you could also run subcritical to uphold the terpenes and they have their own medicinal role to play in the factors affecting the effectiveness of our product infusions. And you terpenes are huge, but people are just now starting to really focus on those. I feel like the other thing is, co2 extraction is safe to work with in comparison to a lot of methods and then it’s also safe for the patient. You know, it’s been used in the food industry for a long time in all kinds of applications like decaffeinated coffee is an example I use a lot to patients. It is also environmentally friendly compared to a lot of other methods in terms of solvent and energy usage. And, I think you were just previously talking about, mold and stuff in plants. Of course, the way it is right now, I mean, we haven’t been doing this but if a grower were to come to us with mold, co2 can kill off some of the things like that that happened with a grower. So that’s really how we ended up with co2. Processing.

Honey Smith Walls 2:58

Did you hire a chemist? Did you hire a lab? Did you go to a white label Corporation? How did you get from the stands at your kid’s sports event, to becoming you owners of this big company?

Brandee Spillman  3:19

It was so scary. As I said, I’m an accountant. I did some bootstrapping and we went for it. We researched different co2 extraction companies and like I said, we bootstrapped.

It’s just Nicole and I’s funding in here. So we found a co2 extractor that was really entry level. And we started with that because here… I’m sure in any market, but in Oklahoma with there being no caps on the licenses until recently… It was very, very important that we go as quickly as possible. And so we started with what we have now.

We have a very nice extractor now that’s automated. The terpene quality that comes out of the Midas is just perfect. We started putting down payments. We didn’t even have a location yet. Oh my gosh, Nicole and I spent some times in the car in the winter almost in tears trying to find a location… we had multiple locations fall through. Oh no, but things have a way of working out. You know, when you’re where you’re meant to be. They have a way of working now. We finally found a location to take receipt of our equipment. We were able to find a chemist who had her own company another woman! Yes,

Honey Smith Walls 5:13

So damned impressive.

Brandee Spillman  5:15

Thank you. I’ll give her a plug.  Lo with She did consulting for us to show us Extraction.

Honey Smith Walls 5:29

She have a website? If you name the website I’ll put it up in the shownotes as well.

Brandee Spillman  5:33

I believe it’s I think that’s I don’t know the wording but I’ll look.

Honey Smith Walls 5:40

Say her name again?

Brandee Spillman  5:43

Low, Low is how you pronounce it… I can spell it “Freezin”I think it’s how you pronounce her last name.

Honey Smith Walls 6:03

Okay, I’ll look I’ll check her out on LinkedIn too. But anyway, wow.

Brandee Spillman  6:07

And you know, we had consulting from the first extraction manufacturer as well on top of her and on our new extraction extractor, you know, of course they come down and spend time with you.

Honey Smith Walls 6:19

Did you say they were from Washington state.

Brandee Spillman  6:22

So Halo cannabis is Washington State. Yeah. And then Vanguard Scientific Systems which is actually out of Oregon.

Honey Smith Walls 6:36


Brandee Spillman  6:38

That female connection on Vanguard, you know, one of the founders there, that’s who, who we’ve worked with.

Honey Smith Walls 6:47

Fantastic… this all is just enthralling to me. I’m so impressed and inspired by your courageous march to just get it done.

Brandee Spillman  7:01

I don’t know if it was courage or stupidity really. I often reflect on that. It’s kind of like… When you asked me about joining the military… It’s kind of the same as joining the cannabis industry. I don’t know if I would have made the same choices if I had full knowledge, because it’s so scary. Both of them are scary. And there’s a lot to learn along the way. You know, products…. what was our first product?

A topical if that tells you how medicinally focused we are… actually our first product was set to be a full spectrum vape cart. And as people often do, you know, we had trouble with some things… with the hardware we used in the initial launch… there was some filling equipment. It was just honestly a mess. And it was a newbie sort of thing. And so we had to pivot quickly. And so we did a topical as our first product and then we finally got the vape cart launch and then it was really no looking back from there.

Our first product we formed at our company in September 2,018/25. Okay, the end of September, and our first product to market was at the end of February. Before COVID hit. Well, actually February 2019. I’m telling you, we moved quick. And Nicole and I said from the beginning we gotta move quick, we got to figure out what because we were doing product development along the way.

It’s not like we’re some big well funded organization in multiple states that already knew what products they were putting out… it wasn’t like that. We had to do it as we went which has been a ton a ton of work. Big learning curve.  So the other decision that we had to make after we decided which extraction method is… are we putting out a full spec product? And, you know, yeah, we did… because all the research that is out there… and there is a lot of research, it just may not be taken place in the United States.

Honey Smith Walls 9:52

You know, a lot of it didn’t but now there is ample research on cannabinoids, terpenoids, cannabinoid ology by cannabinoid ologists. Yeah, so now we can research… and granted we need tons more, but at least you’re right. It did start outside of the United States in Israel and soon blossomed around the world. And, you know, it was Roger Adams, one of our own Americans who really elucidated cannabinoid THC and went on I guess it was CBD, and then Rafael Mechoulam for THC, right? Yeah. So go on, go on. Tell us…

Brandee Spillman  10:39

Well, when you go out and you look at what that really is… full spectrum… and what they’re seeing in the research, I mean, it takes all those pieces of the plant to to modulate the THC. And it just, you need all the pieces together to create the highest quality medicine… at least that’s what I’m seeing right now in what I read, and so, that is what our products are.

We only do full spec products. And a lot of them are strain specific. But then we also do some high CBD blends and we’ll get into that. But you know, the first step was what kind of processing we’re going to do. The next step was, what was that going to look like in the end, a post processing… and so full spec was the decision. And, you know, I won’t get into like packaging and all that right now because that’s…

Honey Smith Walls 11:44

What a nightmare. Yeah. And that’s a long process of decision making too, isn’t it? Yes.

Brandee Spillman  11:51

And so that’s a whole nother episode I’d be glad to do with you.

Honey Smith Walls 11:56

I gripe about packaging constantly. Because my arthritic hands and the litigation of the legislators keep demanding these childproof things. And it’s impossible to utilize for people with disabilities in their hands. So yeah, anyway, go on. I’m sorry. See, I get up on my soapbox about packaging.

Brandee Spillman  12:21

Well, there’s a lot to packaging. So all I’ll say about that and then I’ll skip over to product development… there is much more to the packaging and reading all the rules in these different states and trying to be compliant but not only trying to be compliant, but the packaging industry in 2018? It’s getting better but was really behind the curve. So there wasn’t a ton of child resistant options available that are affordable entry level. And then scalable, right? Straight to scale. Oh, on a bootstrap that doesn’t work. So I’ll leave it at that. But it really narrowed your choices, didn’t it? It really made it much more difficult. It’s a lot of work for Nicole and I…

Honey Smith Walls 13:12

To come into compliance on so many levels. This is what I’m kind of listening to… this whole story illuminates so much for us because in Florida, you’ve got to be a multi state operator, an MSO to come in here and start doing anything of value. And bottom line, you gotta have 60 mil. Just to open one dispensary.

Brandee Spillman  13:38


Honey Smith Walls 13:39

I’m just fascinated by your bootstraps story, and how you’re managing to turn this tiny little operation into the big production it looks like it is now. I’m just really, really impressed.

Brandee Spillman  13:59

Hustle and passion! Because if it wasn’t, I would have been long gone so you know next week we’re looking at products as I said… we had first decided the vape  and then because both of us as patients were already using that… and so I think that’s why we were really interested in that product at first… even though it’s not in the scale of all of our products that we have now…. It’s not the most medicinal in my opinion, but we do produce a nice one.

So we moved on then to topicals. Well, you know, a lot of people who are new to cannabis…  they think flowers and edibles… or old to cannabis… but like baby boomer age and older, or even my age… I’m 50… and older,  they don’t really understand all the ways that there are to medicate. That’s it. Yeah. And patients first need to examine the primary reason they’re trying to medicate and then there’s whole other factors that have to be considered and narrow down their delivery method choices.

Honey Smith Walls 15:16

Yep…we call that mindfulness and there’s such a lack of it.

Brandee Spillman  15:20

What I want you to understand about the polling I tried to do and all the Bison team members is that we selected all these base products that we’re going to manufacture to be really mindful about covering as many delivery methods as possible within the scope of our funding.

If we had unlimited funding, I would be taking everything to the next level… we tried to do the best we could evaluating all the factors. And you know, that looks like in our brand that we have a lot of different delivery methods. We have inhalation, topicals, we have vaginal and rectal suppositories, patches, edibles including no sugar, hard pressed tablets, because we both wanted something for people who either couldn’t have sugar because of a medical reason or just that was their choice, and then sublingual with tinctures. Every method has its pros and cons… different onset times… different effects, different levels of discreteness… different levels of convenience or portability… we try to address it all as much as possible.

Honey Smith Walls 16:49

Lifestyle issues. Yes, yeah.

Brandee Spillman  16:53

And, you know, we’ve done that. But now what we run into is the fact that we’re a wholesaler… we don’t have our own dispensary.

We host sell to partners around the state. And so it’s whether or not those partners can communicate those choices to the patients. And then the difference between the products on the shelf in those categories. And that’s where we have a lot of problems. Because if you’re running a legal business and you’re doing everything you’re supposed to do, from testing to product liability insurance to workers comp, insurance, you know, all the things… There’s all the compliance issues. Yeah. And you’re using a very medicinally focused method of extraction and post processing then yes, your products are gonna be more expensive, they’re more complicated.

And so you have to have people in your corner that can get patients into the right products and explain why they’re more expensive which by the way, I’ve heard you touch on it in another episode, but which by the way, if you really tracked it and journaled… probably aren’t more expensive because of the way it works in your body. Exactly. You know, but that’s a lot for a newbie to cannabis.

Honey Smith Walls 18:38

Yeah, so damned complicated. It is…and the hippies just act like it’s simple as all get out. Well, it is if all you’re looking for is high, but you may get serious anxiety. And feel like you’re paralyzed in your chair… like you’re going blind and you can’t move… if you don’t know what you’re doing. Or if you took a bite of your grandson’s brownie and suddenly that THC that was a very high percentage turned into 11 hydroxy from your liver and now you’re shit-faced and scared to death and your grandkids are trying to take you to the hospital. If you don’t know what you’re doing…

Brandee Spillman  19:21

You know what the worst part about that is Honey? The worst part is if they went into a dispensary seeking help for a medical condition and then get put in the wrong product. It may be one and done. And I am passionate about this and everyone at Bison is passionate that you know… this can be life changing.

Yes… And you just took away that opportunity by putting a patient in a wrong product.

Honey Smith Walls 19:57

It’s like going to your doctor… Oh God… (dogs barking in background…) Apologies. I’ve got five of them.

Honey Smith Walls 20:09

It’s like, you go to your regular doctor and he says, Oh, you have diabetes. Here. I’m gonna give you a prescription to take to the drugstore. And all it says is diabetes and you take it to the drugstore and the pharmacist says, Oh, you’ve got diabetes? Well here, take your pick out of all these pills, which ones do you want?

Brandee Spillman  20:32

Right? And that’s the thing that’s confusing for that age range of patients… I don’t think they understand that. That by and large, a lot of people who are helping them narrow down the choice may or may not have this level of understanding… and they may be trying and may not be helping.

Honey Smith Walls 20:58

Even if it’s unintentional. Yeah. misinformation is still very rampant and, you know, problematic.

Brandee Spillman  21:08

I feel like they don’t understand that it’s different than going into a pharmacy and that you have to take some responsibility in your own hands to seek help. To find the correct help outside of where you’re going.

Honey Smith Walls 21:26

So this is how I’m trying to help our audience understand. They need autonomy over their own body. And they and we don’t… we’re not raised believing we have it. We’re raised to believe we have to go see a doctor… to be told what’s wrong with us… and how to fix it. We’re never raised to say, Oh, you gotta tummy ache? Let’s go look at the herbs and see which ones are going to help that.

Brandee Spillman  21:53

No we’re not… and people are so used to the way it is that they just don’t understand they need to seek out the right help. Someone who really understands and then they have to journal about their experiences that it does.

It takes a little bit to know what terpenes work for you. And you know what kinds of things work for you and what doesn’t, but once you figure it out, then you’ll be able to triage different choices at a dispensary.

Honey Smith Walls 22:28

You know for instance, some terpenes can affect you emotionally… like I think limonene makes me giggle and happy and goofy. Uh huh. You know, and I think linalool that’s in lavender makes me just kind of mellow… and so you know those things, but then that’s just on the emotional level. They also have this huge scope of medicinal effects for you anti antibiotic, anti cancer anti tumor, anti you know, blah, blah, blah. So, now we’re layering on all of these values. It’s valuable emotionally, it’s valuable medicinally, it’s valuable for pain and inflammation and as well as the same, connect the other cannabinoids that are along for the ride with those terpenes… yeah, there’s a lot of overlapping of chemical, medicinal value.

Brandee Spillman  23:32

Mind Body Spirit. Yes, ma’am. It really is and you learn that… the longer you’re in cannabis or longer you’re using the plant.

Honey Smith Walls 23:47

But I cannot tell you how stupefying it was that the scientists led me to spirit. Yeah, I rejected religion… called myself an atheist… became a an armchair science geek. I followed all of the cannabis scientists on LinkedIn and what did they say? The body will not heal without healing spirit too.

Brandee Spillman  24:09

That is absolutely true. And if there are things I noticed about using cannabis now that I didn’t notice in the beginning, I really like to have my own experience. Um, well, because in the beginning, I was just so focused on just calming my anxiety.

Brandee Spillman  24:33

There’s a lot of shit going on out there. Trying not to drink you know. Yeah. Oh, yeah. By the way, I’ve been sober over four years now… amazing. And there’s other things that go into it, but I have a lot to do with it, of course.

I was so focused on that, that I didn’t realize how it was affecting me spiritually. Like how I would describe it is…a lot of times when I’m laying there, and it’s right before I fall asleep, I just have a lot of memories come back to me that I maybe haven’t thought about in forever.

And I think about what was happening at that time. Yeah. And my perspective has changed… really like my perspective of how I see that now… is different. Yeah, and a lot of times what I find is, it just brings up maybe empathy. That about situations that I didn’t feel before where maybe before I felt more you know, anger or frustration Brandee Spillman

Honey Smith Walls 25:46

You’ve elevated, honey.

Brandee Spillman  25:49

That is what I’m saying. Like it just…  I get you in so many ways.

Honey Smith Walls 25:54

I get it. I hear it and I hear the joy. When you say that, I get it, I get it. I know it’s nice to reflect upon your past and not feel so hurt. And because when you are emotionally hurt your body is… you’re sinking that into your body… you’re sinking that emotional memory into your body and your body doesn’t know if you’re feeling it in the moment in the present or in a memory. It’s the same illness you’re sinking into your body. So now you’ve elevated and recovered from some of that, those lower emotions. We have such a huge spectrum of emotions, don’t we?

Brandee Spillman  26:45

Yes, yeah. And I just feel like a lot of people are going to come to cannabis.  Mostly what I see I feel like is PTSD.  I say anxiety but you know, people can have anxiety and not have PTSD but that can also be a symptom of that.

Sleep is a big deal and sleep is so critical to the body. If you do nothing else but use cannabis for sleep and improve your sleep, you will improve your overall quality of life. You will think more clearly that you will just have a different mental state and outlook on life… just from improving your sleep alone…

Honey Smith Walls 27:34

Sleep is when your body wants to repair itself. And exactly like you said… sleep is absolutely vital. So just getting a good night’s sleep is a huge change in quality of life for those who suffer from lack of sleep. And a lot of elders suffer from lack of sleep. But a lot of elders are already on a handful of synthetic prescription medicines. And that’s the underlying basis of their lack of sleep.

Brandee Spillman  28:05

Yeah,  it’s hard for elderly people and for veterans. It’s so sad, how many prescriptions that they have people on.

Honey Smith Walls 28:23

You know, synthetic prescriptions absolutely have their place and are a godsend for so many people who need them. But not every frickin person on the planet needs a synthetic prescription in their body when there are so many plants. Here’s the thing I wanted to say to you. I think people do not understand how plant-like we are…our bodies. Our plants. Our own body is a universe of bugs living inside of us and communicating.

Brandee Spillman  28:57

Our body is fascinating to me. Like I never was into science in school. I was either always about business, you know, I love this but let me tell you now that I have gotten in to studying the plant… like I can sit and watch all kinds of other documentaries now about the human body. That’s all I do. And I look at it differently because just learning about the plant has been eye opening about all the things that are going on in the body.

How nature interacts with that. I mean one day could there be I don’t know what all I’m gonna see in my lifetime. It depends on how quickly everything moves, you know. But I just, if I could have all the funding in the world, I would love that Bison to have their own grow and they were growing strains that were high in different things, for different for issues, right.

And those genetics were studied and developed, you know, and thought out… because we were targeting certain kinds of issues, and that they were grown in the same way every time and those were the strains that we ran all the time… it would be nice to have those controls… all those are going to be happening with some companies that I follow.

We don’t have that luxury so we try the best for the patients on both the affordability side and consistency side. We have advisors and we work with as few growers as possible to keep our medicine consistent because that’s very important to the patient.

You want to be able to buy from a company that consistently formulates the same way as the SOPs in place. Yes, test the product. Of course we’re supposed to be testing but you know, that doesn’t mean that you couldn’t go to a dispensary and pick up a product that wasn’t tested still. I mean, let’s be honest,

Transcribed by

Outro Bumper:

Hey friends, join us next week in our continued conversation for an uplifting peek into the inspired mind of a veteran with an accountant’s background and a heart full of PTSD as she courageously jumps into a burgeoning foundation-less industry to fall back on. In other words… we’re all makin it up as we go. See ya next week.


You’ve been listening to another Cannaba Verum podcast with 21st century cannabis shaman Honey Smith Walls about the importance of using verifiably safe products. The process of getting a diagnosis from your family doctor and taking your records to a cannabis specialist can lead you to the correct cannabinoid therapy for those issues. Otherwise, you’re just your own guinea pig looking for answers without any foundational knowledge or ability to determine the best choices or strategies.

To find a qualified cannabis expert in your area… visit

It is a national society of cannabis experts and you’ll see that link down in my show notes.

Unless otherwise proven by a reputable third party lab test, please be advised that all street weed is contaminated. It may do grave harm to a patient with a delicate immune system who already has inflammatory issues like arthritis, IBS, fibromyalgia or worse.

Subscribe to the Cannaba Verum podcast and become part of a project to understand the effects of cannabis on the public. Your anecdotal testimony is priceless to me. Medical citations are posted on my podcast blog when you visit That’s Hey, and one last thing… Would you take an extra second to give my podcast a Like and Review? It’s like Bitcoin crack for the algorithms. Thanks so much. Hey, I hear the cows calling.



Cannaba Verum is Latin for Cannabis Truth. Sourcing factual information about cannabis hasn’t always been easy for a variety of reasons. However now because of modern innovations, it is. My sources are from leaders in cannabis science like:

Roger Adams, U.S. Organic Chemist who isolated the structure of CBD,

Raphael Mechoulam, Israeli Organic Chemist who isolated the structure of THC,

Ethan Russo, Dir R&D International Cannabis and Cannabinoids Institute

Dustin Sulak, DO – my favorite doctor at, teaching the art of Cannabis Healing to the world, and other industry greats like:

Rev. Dr. Kymron DeCesare, Ed Rosenthal, Jack Herer, Michael Backes, and Michael Pollen and so many more… plus I use classical sites like:,, I listen to several daily podcasts to keep up with the latest cannabis news across the nation and throughout the world like: Dr. Codi Peterson et al on The Cannigma Podcast, and  I trust the and I watch the National Cannabis Industry Association (NCIA) at: and many more like: NCIA’s Cannabis Industry VOICE (

Over past episodes of Cannaba Verum, we’ve listened to some amazing scientists and medical professionals talk about their discoveries and patient successes as hundreds of questionable compounds rise to the public grasp. I am especially interested in the pharmacists movement becoming an integral part of this new medicinal choice.

Watch this machine roll into action through conversations with pharmacy doctors all over the nation like Dr. Leah Johnson and Dr. Codi Peterson out West and Dr. Alan Ao up North. There are so many more getting involved now… these are just a few who have come on my show to explain the situation and it’s fascinating.

You’ll find citations available on my podcast blog at

PS: Helping society get past the fear of using cannabis will be a lifelong journey for me. This industry is just opening up and most patients and doctors are seriously cannabis naive and need help understanding where to turn for trustworthy information.

If you need help opening that cannabis discussion with your family doctor,  please reach out and grab the Dear Doctor Letter I wrote for this exact purpose. It will explain your decision to try cannabis and ask for their help in monitoring your labs and progress. It will also show them where they can find medical research on the subject of your diagnosis and the effects of cannabis.

You’ll find that letter at  

My specialist in hormonal help: Dr. Genester Wilson-King, M.D. and Founder

Victory Rejuvenation Center – Orlando, Florida

My Neurologist and Cannabis Expert Medical Marijuana Doctor in Melbourne, FL:

Anthony Mazo, M.D.

Brevard Neuro Center

(321) 733-2711

315 E. Nasa Blvd.

Melbourne, FL 32901.    

All opinions are my own and should not be mistaken as medical advice.

(1) Microdosing –

(2) Concentrates –

(3) Cannabis Helps Dementia Podcast – Anchor.FM/cannabishelpsdementia

(4) Society of Cannabis Clinicians –

(5) Take the Pledge –

(6) Handbook for Clinicians – Principles and Practice –

(7) The Cannigma Podcast =

(8) Curious About Cannabis Podcast =

Show Notes:

It has always been the courage of women that allows the existence of humanity on this planet. Knowing what we must about the way this world works… Today’s guest will show you what a woman of experience can do to find healing for herself from the life she’s lived… and then pass that healing forward in her own way. You looking for inspiration? You’ll probably find lots of it here with Brandee at

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