CV 037 Dr. Michael Geci Part 1

May 14, 2021

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Welcome to the Cannaba Verum podcast, the cannabis truth podcast. I speak the language of cannabis freely and uncensored, while educating my audience on the safe use of this live Plant Therapy. You should know what’s in your cannabis, what’s good and what’s not. It does not come with an FDA stamp of approval yet, using cannabis mindfully, as medication is a different concept in the healthcare philosophy of the past 100 years. There’s a lot to learn and consider cannabis is not dangerous, but it is not harmless, either. This is honey Smith walls, a 21st century cannabis shaman here to explain the language of cannabis in historical, political, and scientific terms, so you can make educated decisions about the medicine you ingest.

Unknown 0:05

Thank you so much for coming and hanging out with me a little bit, and talking about your book pot doc. You and I were just chatting a second ago and you were about to say that the book wasn’t about you, it was about the whole process of trying to understand cannabis in the public realm, and getting our legislators to understand what they’re trying to legislate for the public, but they don’t, they’re not realizing the public they’re legislating for our patients, they’re trying to do something different. And it’s been so frustrating that just tried to that the bill to cap THC down here in Florida just failed, and so good for us, and a lot of other horrible bills too.

Unknown 1:04

But I felt every single bit of pain that you did it felt like, probably because you’re such a good writer, about what happened in Montana.

Unknown 1:17

Well, the thing, the thing I think most important about the story is that that few people know about it so few people understand that that there, there, there was a state that basically lost Medical Marijuana Medical cannabis for five years because of fear and and prejudice, and, and, and the fear that that was evoked in Montana. I mean, I don’t want to make it sound like it was all, you know, that was any one person’s fault Well, I mean I, I guess, you know, there, there was one instigator that if that if he hadn’t been involved in the program, then we might be telling a different story and my book would have would have had a very different ending. I know you’re talking about. Yeah, yeah. And, but, you know, there was, There was misbehavior, on the part of some pro cannabis people, you know, a handful. Really, I can think of, really, I mean, there’s, there was one person who really scuttled the whole system because he pushed boundaries in ways that other people weren’t willing to push them, and you know and I’m all about pushing boundaries but I mean, you know the program in Montana got scuttled because of these clinics that people who haven’t read the book, which is majority of the population. But, you know, it was a it was a compassionate use law that the state passed in 2004 got implemented in 2005 and in the course of four years between 2005 and 2009 when Obama took over as president, there were maybe 1100 people in the state that had that had gotten their cards, and it was under the radar. It was a program that people just sort of lost interest in unless you were patient. And then when you know with this whole idea of hope you can believe in. And the perception that Obama was going to be soft on cannabis and maybe even legalized cannabis things exploded, and the law, which was, it was called Mt 148 It was a law that was not scalable.

Unknown 3:55

So it worked fine for a few 100 people who were involved, and initially in a handful of growers but once people really started to you know once it started to pick up and there were reform measures introduced in every session of legislature and I think part of it is important to remember is that, Montana, you know meets every other year and there’s, there’s, there’s only a handful that blew me away when I read that in your book. Yeah, every other year yeah right.

Unknown 4:29

Texas is another state and you think yourself a state is big and as powerful as Texas in the legislature only meets every other year and that painful. That seems crazy, it seems crazy. Yeah, but but but that was one of the other issues is, is by the time the legislature met, There’d been no gain by this bad behavior.

Unknown 4:52

It just became unmanageable and, you know, get the you know the 2010 midterm elections, you know, change the complexion and the demographics of the legislature. It went from basically a bipartisan group to a over the antagonistic.

Unknown 5:18

Tea Party fronted it truancy and they, they, in, in some of the people ran on on repeal or bust. One of the things I joke about with people if I slept through my class and clear more bulls.

Unknown 5:35

That’s why you have to explain things to me, and, but, you know, I would tell people, the other see this comment and and I said you know you, because this guy would have clinics and they would see anywhere between three and 500 patients over, you know, a holiday or comfort in the conference room and they they’d set up and then outside where the doctor was seeing patients, you know, growers and dispensary owners had tables, and they were trying to sign patients up, you know, they’d get their card and they’d say, you know, if you sign up with me, you get a free ounce. And, you know, so there was enormous and and the way that was structured in Montana, was that every six that you had a card for a patient you could grow six plants for them. And so, you know, in a weekend, you could get, you know if you got, you know, five or six patients.

Unknown 6:41

That’s, that’s 30 plants a weekend that you’re increasing your, your grill by, and you know after, after a while, you could get a pretty big operation go and what was your answer to that, what should have been, what would you have liked to have seen in that state for the system they set up to employ or utilize medical cannabis for the patients. Well, what I did was I saw that basically in all medical programs the bottleneck is the doctor, and without doctors.

Unknown 7:20

You can’t have a program. So, what he was doing is he was bringing people in from outside. Initially it was an in state doctor but then what I did is I filed a complaint with the State Board, the state medical board and said this is what’s going on. And when he found out that that I, you know, that I reported the doctor, he just simply fired her and, and brought in somebody from out from outside the state. So, So the state board knew what was going on, and they could have intervened, they could have like done something, you know, what could they have done, maybe they could have outlawed or made some provision where you couldn’t, you couldn’t have clinics outside of your office, so that would have eliminated these carnival clinics has. It sort of reminded me of the dead show. I mean, yeah, that’s it that’s a bad thing but I mean, atmosphere, the dead show us is for great music and beyonds and medical marijuana is for something entirely different, though, down here in Florida, the majority of people I see in the dispensaries are all old farts. They’re there for real remedies for aches and pains and surviving, you know, elder life. And the young people I see coming in. They’re hobbling in there 100 pounds overweight already. They got issues they’d rather not be dealing with at that young age, but they’re there for a reason and it’s not to get high. Oh my gosh and Michigan then you just have to sign a piece of paper, whatever cannabis candy store you walk into that says, you understand that they have not third party lab tested any of their junk so whatever you buy, it’s just, you know, caveated tour. So I was wondering if you’ve seen a better system, you know, I don’t know how you guys are operating in New York, and what they did, they say, you can you can smoke it but you can’t buy it you can’t sell it and you can’t smoke it in public and can’t smoke it in the apartment complex, but, you know, good luck with that it’s legal here somehow. If you’re Willie Nelson you smoke it on the roof of the White House.

Unknown 9:41

Yeah, well, in terms of New York.

Unknown 9:44

I mean after, after what happened in Montana. I mean, I took a pretty big hit. I bet you did, but financially and emotionally, and I just hobbled back to the ER, and, and, in New York is kind of a interesting state, but health has a tremendous amount of power. I just frankly didn’t want to deal with. I don’t do any kind of cannabis clinics in New York at all, and actually haven’t done any cannabis medicine since 2012 Really, I mean I’m looking to get back in. But do you still have whole health and healing, yeah, did I still have it. I still have people that call me and I’ll do console’s are all, you know, make a house call or something but.

Unknown 10:37

Yeah, and I guess what I’m, what I’m hoping to do is expand that, especially since COVID is sort of opened up the whole telemedicine thing, right, um, you know see folks, But for me it’s been an issue of trying to find my grounding in terms of where I belong in this space, and even in fact, if I belong in this space, because it’s an odd space, I mean it’s just, I agree that, you know, I mean, you get people that are that are suffering on multiple levels. And yet, people that have that that are that are self medicating for mental health disorders, and they’re using the wrong products and they’re using contaminated products and they’re not strategizing, and they’re not micro dosing, and they’re still using Street weight. Oh my god it’s making me crazy. I want to help them all so badly. Yeah, and I was involved in a conversation last night with somebody on LinkedIn, and talking about the issue of cannabis contamination, and a couple of articles and I said, sent them to the person, and I mean it’s a, it’s a real issue. I mean there are a couple stories, of, of cannabis contamination that we ran into in Montana with the lab, there’s a story of the guy who broke a mercury thermometer in his hydroponic in the hydroponic grow and when he told me he was saying, yeah, when he told his boss that gee, he’s sorry that he that he ruined the, the crops. The guys. What do you mean, quarter million dollars a pot. Nobody’s gonna know that’s gonna know. That’s right, He was right, nobody’s gonna know until their kids show up with half a brain. Yeah, you know, over, over the period of time when I was pretty active. You know, we started a, an organization called the Alliance for cannabis science. Yes, and it was a group of people, a group of chemists, mostly chemists I was the only physician, and who were, who had labs and, you know, the idea is that you had to test, you know, regulate the labs, yes, sort of, you had to have some sort of level playing ground where everybody agreed that this was the methodology that you were going to use, they’ve got to create an SRP for all of that and they’ve got to make standardize that across the United States and probably around the world, and what is keeping you from a line of 18 Wheeler laboratories that go from state to state testing Wait.

Unknown 13:22

Did you just go down to the basement. No, I went upstairs where I thought I could get a better signal. Oh, I’m happy. Yeah, the yard man came today of course so I’m in the closet my husband’s closet.

Unknown 13:39

I guess the closet can be a safe place to be. Yeah, and then I’ve got these five little walls, scratching on the door one, Wondering what’s mama do it in the closet, can I come into, you still have puppies. Yeah, well I’ve got my girlfriend and I, we just got a.

Unknown 13:57

We just got a dog, just before Christmas, just after Christmas, and so it’s the first dog that I’ve had for a while but you know I, I had, I had a number of dogs.

Unknown 14:08

Here we had 13 dogs for a while and it was kind of crazy, but it was really, it was really kind of interesting.

Unknown 14:18

I never felt more safe and all my life and having, having all those dogs or loved all that affection, all the time you being the leader. I even know that you had a college German Shepherd mix named honey.

Unknown 14:33

Yeah, it was the, it was actually the best gift that my sister ever gave me. That is so precious, Really, and God what wonderful creatures, mixed breeds. To be sure, but this Collie and shepherd mixes, man, they’re smart as whippersnappers, so let me just have suit, so there are, there are mobile labs in Florida.

Unknown 14:57

Now I’m wondering what’s keeping you from starting a fleet of mobile lads on 18 wheelers that go from state to state that so desperately need that. And you could write the ESOPs for that. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, right after you get through with your, with your new book on science Kaina and what was that it was the, what was your science club called the Science, yeah the alliance, the light, yes. Yeah, I mean it was a, I mean it was actually it was an international group, I mean, saying, now you know you look back and you say oh well, well of course, but in 2009 I mean, I mean in 2009 nobody had heard of CBD. Oh god no, you know, basically to him basically cannabis testing was all about, you know THC and right, and just to see how much you had and now now, What what the concentration was and I refer to it in the book as as an arms race, you know, who could have, you know who can have the, you know who can grow, grow the most concentrated weed.

Unknown 16:08

And in the slave I need an attitude adjustment about this, this plant, and, and what we need to be using it for, I don’t have any problem with people wanting adult use. I do have a problem with people not using it cleanly and and mindfully. It’s just stupid to to ingest a product with over 500 compounds in it you don’t know what the is in it. Yeah, yeah, it’s stupid. For me, I kind of broke onto the scene if you will, nationally, briefly, I went to a patient’s out of time conference. It was in Providence, Rhode Island, and at the time it was a biannual conference and so those there and I was telling people about our lab at that time in the country, there were three labs in the country. Now, I knew that somebody was already doing it. Steve de blows. Oh yeah, keep it all lab. Yeah, that service harbourside, which is you know I mean I have to give him credit because, you know, I saw the article by Louise Parker on the cover of Fortune magazine in September 2009 And it said is weed already legal and I was in the Minneapolis Airport on the way to Bozeman, to do some clinics and I saw it I picked it up, I’m like, Huh, you know, they’re doing, they’re they’re actually testing this stuff, I’m like wow what a what a novel idea it’s no kidding. You know, I had the idea, to his credit, a guy that was as busy as he was even back then. I sent him a note on Facebook, and he replied to me, and I was shocked, and, and, and he, he gave me like a 15 or 20 minute interview in November of 2009 and gave me some ideas, but I’d already been looking into to starting lab and I’d already made contact with my, with my Dutch contact, but you know we brought a, we brought a Dutch chemist who was, you know, probably the leading analytical chemist in the world on cannabinoid analysis and we brought him to Montana and he he trained our. He trained my partner. And so how’s he doing, and where did he go, where did he end up, you know he’s circulated through the industry.

Unknown 18:32

I saw him last. In 2019 Just before COVID hit, he was giving a lecture on CBD, and, and whether you know, basically the contamination of dosing issues that he’s with CBD. And so he’s given a talk in Berlin at the ICRP conference, and I saw him there, and he’s got a he runs a master class where he takes a bunch of students and, and he has like, I don’t know it’s like a two week maybe course we’re he brings in speakers and trains people on, on the right way to do cannabis, and he’s doing independent consulting right now. Good. What would be your most important message to our audience about cannabis. Well, I think that you’re a cannabis activist, if you have an idea that this isn’t the devil’s weed like it’s been purported to be that, you know, from my perspective, the most important thing that people can do is push the federal legislation over the finish line, because you know my story about what happened in Montana is a real life example of what can go wrong, calling your legislators, calling your, your, you know, the people who represent you in the house, the people that represent you in the Senate, calling the White House, and just put pressure on these people, because that’s to get real with cannabis, it’s it’s got, I mean, it’s got to be, it’s got to be rescheduled or D scheduled, I mean I don’t I don’t really have an issue with it, you know, being, you know, rescheduled to schedule three, you know, The talk right now is D scheduling it completely.

Unknown 20:26

But, you know, I can understand the rationale for not wanting to completely lose control over it because of because of THC, because he didn’t want people are not saying is that you can control the THC, they’re not teaching people to control their THC by micro dosing, they’re not telling them about the contamination either. That’s my whole soapbox, is, is the problem of contamination, and Florida. They’re scared shitless of getting high, because they’ve been so propagandized but you talk to somebody from Colorado or California comes over here, and man, they’re just all about getting high, and they just want to know how much you know what that percentage of THC is in that joint they’ll give a shit about what all the rest of the stuff does. And they don’t microdose, they just pop up up up up up up. And that’s not, you know, I don’t again, I don’t have any problem with somebody wanting to you know get high. I don’t have any problems with that. But when you look a little deeper, why you want to get high, or what the medication of cannabis really helps you with.

Unknown 21:42

Yeah, I mean, you know you get into a whole issue of judgment on that and it’s something that I’m a little bit lucked into get into too deeply because when things went down completely in Montana. I mean, I had friends who would call, they that, that it beatings people, you know that there were people who you know who made death threats. Oh my god, threatened that that I sold people out and stuff and I guess on some level, I was glad that I was, you know 1800 miles away. I put everything that I had into, into my business into the lab into my clinic, and I tell it, I could tell that by your by your writing I felt your absolute little heart beating through that whole event. It took what, two years. How many well from start to finish, I mean, the the lab, you know, we ran our first samples in January of 2010, basically ran our last samples, maybe March of 2011 and only open like 14 months but, I mean, it shows the fear just to kind of catch up with with kind of some of the other things you said, the fear that some of your friends have about using CBD when people tell me the well what kind of CBD should I get one that’s readily available I just recommend Charlotte’s Web. I did too. I do too. I absolutely do. I love Charlotte’s Web. Are you familiar with a doctor Dustin Souillac, he’s a dear. Okay, so I took his healer course I’m certified I, you know, he’s got this fabulous new product, this is CBDa oh right, sure. Back here in Melbourne and I’ve got all these old lady issues and I go to a neurologist for the first time, who happens to be a cannabis friend of mine, but he’s also the first pot doctor in Melbourne Florida so I go to him and he runs all these tests on me and next thing you know, I go back to him and he says okay, and I’m scared shitless he’s gonna tell me I’ve got to have surgery and lalala. He says, I want you to go to M UV this dispensary a particular one, and get some RSO.

Unknown 24:08

I’m doing like a, you know, double take what. And he said, You know, it’s time, he said you’ve been living with bolting and herniated discs for, you know, a long, long time, and it’s time for you to kick your, your cannabis up so that you can control your manage your pain. Oh and then I want you to get some gel patches. Oh, he said, you know, go get a second opinion from a surgeon, if you feel like you want one, and I’ll also order some nerve blockers and any anti inflammatories for you and I’m saying why do I need extra in plant, you know, any inflammatories once cannabis did the trick. He said, Oh yeah, oh yeah well he said just in case you know, he’s just, just wanting you to, you know, have all that you need. Okay, so I went and I got my RSO and my gel patches and cheese I’m feeling so much better. Yeah, that wasn’t very Gordon was it. I adore Dr. Berry is so cool and Patty too and they’re a little puppy. No, but he’s, he’s a buddy of mine and I see him at conferences. And so, and and he has. Let me attend his rounds with him, and I tell everybody he’s got the gold star clinic of cannabis clinics in Florida, I kid you not. He has an amazing system set up and it’s just beautiful, visit him whenever you can. And yeah, I’m really looking forward, you know, for when people feel comfortable, you know, having meetings and getting together because there’s a, there’s a number of. There’s a number of individuals, physicians that that I’ve just been gobsmacked by their by their knowledge of cannabis, and scientists as well I mean, we have a clubhouse room on nine at nine o’clock on Saturday mornings, it’s called cannabinoid science in the human body. And we, the first time I participated was a couple weeks ago and I was, I was stunned by the bandwidth that was in the room, I mean, we had an immunologist from I think either NYU or Columbia.

Unknown 26:28

We had a neurologist from Phoenix, oh my gosh, we had. I mean just there just a number of people that you know Barry, Barry chimed in and just, I mean it’s just because there’s, there’s a ton of, there’s a ton of data out there and one of the things that I would encourage, you know, would people do it always comes up in, in the room, where can people find information. Right. You know, I’m completely self taught. I mean, by and large I mean I’ve gone to, you know, went to a conference I learned some stuff but I mean, but by the time I went to the conference I mean I, everything that I learned about cannabis for the most part was, was self taught, and I would go to PubMed, you know, right, right, all the citations, all of those white papers they’re fabulous. I hang out there to and research gay, all of that in Ch has, has a pretty good stuff on it, that you know people people think well I can’t read a scientific paper, you know it’s too complicated. No it’s not, but you know if you, if you read the introduction to every paper I mean that’s the purpose of the introduction of a scientific paper is to present the problem. Yes, in common layman’s terms to to know why you’re researching, or, you know, to see what it is that you’re investigating. Right. Well, I would encourage everybody to go to PubMed and type in whatever you want. And, yeah, and cannabis and diabetes cannabis tumors cannabis and Alzheimer’s cannabis and whatever your issue is or your question is, and it will come up cannabis and everything because the bar is, you know, and the reason that it works and I guess this is another important point to make is the endocannabinoid system, you know, which cannabis, you know modulates, but but but it’s not just the endocannabinoid system that modulates cannabinoids, you know, have an effect on on a myriad of cellular receptors from adenosine to opiate receptors to serotonin receptors dopamine receptors, I mean it’s, you know, it’s, it, they, They call it promiscuity.

Unknown 28:48

That’s correct eight

Unknown 28:51

molecules especially CBD if you look at the interactions that CBD has with other receptors, I mean it. There’s like 30 or 40 different cellular receptors that that interacts with. And so, so the point is that the endocannabinoid system is the most fundamental receptor system on the planet. I mean it was the primordial receptor it dates back, you know, 600 million years to sea squirts. And isn’t gonna say the same thing. I love telling my audience. Did you know that there’s an invertebrate down at the bottom of the ocean it’s never seen the light of day, that has an endocannabinoid system of receptors just like you and me. Yeah, I mean it’s it’s it’s a little bit different but I mean, it’s been characterized as a primordial cannabinoid receptor. I love that. And so, so cannabinoid receptors were the first receptor system that evolved in in vertebrate and invertebrate biology.

Unknown 29:54

I mean, interestingly, the only the only creatures on earth that don’t have cannabinoid receptors that we know of at least that at this point are insects. These features are, are the way that cells communicate with each other so, so, it’s, it’s the telephone system it’s the, it’s the cell phone system that cells have to communicate with each other, not only next to each other but, you know, across the body they keep through doctors. And so that’s what’s important for, for those people who don’t really have much who slept through biology class. Yeah, cuz that’s all on a molecular level. Yeah, yeah. And when our cells start whispering to us on a molecular level. If we pay attention we can help them right along. Oh yeah hey what do you what do you what do you think about da eight coming out of CBD now. And on that same, I think that it’s another example of, of people pushing boundaries, people.

Unknown 31:03

Yeah, I think that it’s, that it’s, that it’s rogue, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a good word for it. Yeah, I’d agree with that, it’s clearly schedule one.

Unknown 31:15

And it’s a way of dispense of dispensary’s to sort of cheat cheat the system. Yeah I mean it’s a smoke and mirrors thing about well, it’s not th it’s not delta nine is delta eight. Right.

Unknown 31:30

Gonna be delta, delta nine not delta a. Right, exactly a couple of 10 year olds, yeah. And so, you know, and I think that it’s, you know, I think that the industry has to come to terms with that. And they that you know we, this is what we want, this is what we’re people were willing to work with law enforcement, you know, we want to make you want to be legitimate, but but when but and what I can say is the deltaic market has exploded. I was recently I was in I know I saw our, I was in a place in Kentucky, just last just last week and and it was a CBD shop, and this whole, you know, you know, tie dye and tarot cards and, and it’s a head shop, but but yeah it’s so but I asked him, I said, So are you selling Delta eight, And she goes, Yeah, it’s crazy, told the person it’s like well you know it’s still illegal and you know you could really get in trouble for this and thing that I learned about the, the FDA and especially the DEA is, you know, you think that they’re not looking, until you’re in handcuffs. I mean, you know that and they’ve sent letters to two labs, the, the dispensaries and, you know, at some point, you know, I haven’t heard of any, any raids.

Unknown 32:57

Recently, The last big grades I know about we’re I think it was March 14 2011 When, when, when the when the Feds and officials raided nine dispensaries in gross Cana, and ended California simultaneously. Yeah, I remember all that on the news that was just lousy. What about but listen, they just fired a bunch of people at the White House because they had, you know the test for cannabis and that just pissed me off. Well, you know, I I’m glad Old Joe’s there but Hells Bells, it was his fault, we’ve got this fucking mess to begin with, pardon my French, well I mean he’s, he’s, he’s, I mean, the 94 crime bill was his legislation I mean, it was his landmark piece, basically responsible for the start of the prison industrial complex. Yeah, prop for profit prisons. Yeah I mean it’s crazy, and I just I’m very very skeptical of any of any of this happening while he’s still alive. I would say we have a better chance with Mama and Camila doing something Boris, than we do from Oh, Papa Joe. Well, you know, when you look at her record as I know, Gary ADA is not markedly pro Canada’s either. No it’s not. And this is another reason why people need to just, you know, it’s like buying a house. Do your homework, wait to move in, wait to put up the dog fence until you until you finish closing.

Unknown 34:46

Don’t do this until it’s you know, I mean, that actually happened to us one time, I mean, we,

Unknown 34:54

we bought a house, and we, we, in we are 13 dogs we bought a house in Western Kentucky, and on a handshake, you know, the guy’s you know good guy and everything and then you can move in and, and then to get a call from the bank and you know, closing is set for the end of the week we got a call from the bank. He says, Yeah, Mike, I want you to know that this guy’s just committed he’s, he’s, he’s changed the deed, and any setting, can’t have. You can’t have more than five dogs, and, and we’re like, you know, and we’d already, we would pay $5,000 to put up a fence Oh my God.

Unknown 35:33

You know you get so excited you think oh nothing can go wrong, but again, and then it does, if you read the book, it tells you exactly what can go wrong and they can go wrong, it can it can put your entire program on life support, and that’s what happened in Montana in, you know, for five years until until people were able to, you know, recover and gather enough energy to to put together another citizens initiative that covered the issues that weren’t covered in the first instance initiative in 2004. So, so this idea that that party’s for, I mean it’s not I mean, I just, I just can’t emphasize enough how important it is to you know to to organize people and for them to call and call and call their congressmen and call this out on the federal level because yes, because that’s, you know, people forget because you know we’re so ignorant of civics. This is still a Federalist system is a rule Trumps every situation. And we’re still feudal to still a lot of things that I would. Yeah man, but you know journey of 1000 miles begins is the first step and you know and I’ve actually thought about, you know, this idea of a, you know have a cannabis Green Party that that has, you know that has three, you know that has a triad of of issues that that they stand on, you know, prison, and drug reform, Because the, the issue of prison reform needs to happen I mean, what’s, what’s going on in, you know, solitary confinement, and the death penalty, Dostoyevsky said, you know, a culture is judged by how they, how they treat their inmates. That’s right. I can’t believe you just quoted that I just read that like four days ago, for t Holtzman from the compassion Prison Project she talked about that with Charles Eisenstein on one of his podcasts that anybody to those two those two folks because they are there they were amazing individuals.

Unknown 37:48

You mentioned my buddy herb Rosenfeld to in your book and I was so pleased to see that he’s so precious to me. Yeah, you know Yeah, and that’s the other thing people don’t understand and congressmen don’t understand you know people, people always go back and they talk about, well, the FDA says it’s a schedule one substance, well yeah, it is a schedule one substance, but you know that the federal government is still providing cannabis for a handful of individuals now through the, through the IND drug program. Yeah, the, you know herbs GearUp herb bank, all my medicine. Yeah, you know, and, you know, in, he, he, he made it on the back of Mr Randolph, who was the first patient, to, to pressure the government, to, to allow him to use cannabis legally as a medicine. So, so, so this whole, you know, and that’s the other thing that I feel really strongly about is that we wouldn’t be having any kind of discussion about, about recreational use about using psychedelics, if it wasn’t for, for, for medical use, and patients who need it. Exactly. And yes, there’s absolutely no question, cannabis can be used as a medicine that as well as a million other things you know they’ve already made an airplane out of cannabis. Yeah, I mean the idea that people, you know, that people should know that cannabis is a broad designation of have Suceava and included in in that in those varietals is hemp and all the things that hemp can do. I mean, the idea of making biodegradable plastics out of hemp hempcrete for as substitute for concrete.

Unknown 39:36

You know, I mean it’s just using for feed.

Unknown 39:41

I mean it’s just, I mean it really is it’s it’s it’s a plant that had a million purposes. And that’s why, why we, you know how you can outlaw a plant. I just don’t understand that. I mean, well that’s the corruption, sorry to the audience for all the echo you may be hearing at the moment I’m walking through the house trying to get away from the lawn mower, Again, the joys of working from home.

Host: Honey 26:57

You’ve been listening to another Cannaba Verum podcast with 21st century cannabis shaman Honey Smith Walls, about the importance of using safe hemp and marijuana products. Unless otherwise proven by a reputable third party lab test, please be advi

Welcome to the Cannaba Verum podcast, the cannabis truth podcast. I speak the language of cannabis freely and uncensored, while educating my audience on the safe use of this live Plant Therapy. You should know what’s in your cannabis, what’s good and what’s not. It does not come with an FDA stamp of approval yet, using cannabis mindfully, as medication is a different concept in the healthcare philosophy of the past 100 years. There’s a lot to learn and consider cannabis is not dangerous, but it is not harmless, either. This is honey Smith walls, a 21st century cannabis shaman here to explain the language of cannabis in historical, political, and scientific terms, so you can make educated decisions about the medicine you ingest.

Unknown 0:05

Thank you so much for coming and hanging out with me a little bit, and talking about your book pot doc. You and I were just chatting a second ago and you were about to say that the book wasn’t about you, it was about the whole process of trying to understand cannabis in the public realm, and getting our legislators to understand what they’re trying to legislate for the public, but they don’t, they’re not realizing the public they’re legislating for our patients, they’re trying to do something different. And it’s been so frustrating that just tried to that the bill to cap THC down here in Florida just failed, and so good for us, and a lot of other horrible bills too.

Unknown 1:04

But I felt every single bit of pain that you did it felt like, probably because you’re such a good writer, about what happened in Montana.

Unknown 1:17

Well, the thing, the thing I think most important about the story is that that few people know about it so few people understand that that there, there, there was a state that basically lost Medical Marijuana Medical cannabis for five years because of fear and and prejudice, and, and, and the fear that that was evoked in Montana. I mean, I don’t want to make it sound like it was all, you know, that was any one person’s fault Well, I mean I, I guess, you know, there, there was one instigator that if that if he hadn’t been involved in the program, then we might be telling a different story and my book would have would have had a very different ending. I know you’re talking about. Yeah, yeah. And, but, you know, there was, There was misbehavior, on the part of some pro cannabis people, you know, a handful. Really, I can think of, really, I mean, there’s, there was one person who really scuttled the whole system because he pushed boundaries in ways that other people weren’t willing to push them, and you know and I’m all about pushing boundaries but I mean, you know the program in Montana got scuttled because of these clinics that people who haven’t read the book, which is majority of the population. But, you know, it was a it was a compassionate use law that the state passed in 2004 got implemented in 2005 and in the course of four years between 2005 and 2009 when Obama took over as president, there were maybe 1100 people in the state that had that had gotten their cards, and it was under the radar. It was a program that people just sort of lost interest in unless you were patient. And then when you know with this whole idea of hope you can believe in. And the perception that Obama was going to be soft on cannabis and maybe even legalized cannabis things exploded, and the law, which was, it was called Mt 148 It was a law that was not scalable.

Unknown 3:55

So it worked fine for a few 100 people who were involved, and initially in a handful of growers but once people really started to you know once it started to pick up and there were reform measures introduced in every session of legislature and I think part of it is important to remember is that, Montana, you know meets every other year and there’s, there’s, there’s only a handful that blew me away when I read that in your book. Yeah, every other year yeah right.

Unknown 4:29

Texas is another state and you think yourself a state is big and as powerful as Texas in the legislature only meets every other year and that painful. That seems crazy, it seems crazy. Yeah, but but but that was one of the other issues is, is by the time the legislature met, There’d been no gain by this bad behavior.

Unknown 4:52

It just became unmanageable and, you know, get the you know the 2010 midterm elections, you know, change the complexion and the demographics of the legislature. It went from basically a bipartisan group to a over the antagonistic.

Unknown 5:18

Tea Party fronted it truancy and they, they, in, in some of the people ran on on repeal or bust. One of the things I joke about with people if I slept through my class and clear more bulls.

Unknown 5:35

That’s why you have to explain things to me, and, but, you know, I would tell people, the other see this comment and and I said you know you, because this guy would have clinics and they would see anywhere between three and 500 patients over, you know, a holiday or comfort in the conference room and they they’d set up and then outside where the doctor was seeing patients, you know, growers and dispensary owners had tables, and they were trying to sign patients up, you know, they’d get their card and they’d say, you know, if you sign up with me, you get a free ounce. And, you know, so there was enormous and and the way that was structured in Montana, was that every six that you had a card for a patient you could grow six plants for them. And so, you know, in a weekend, you could get, you know if you got, you know, five or six patients.

Unknown 6:41

That’s, that’s 30 plants a weekend that you’re increasing your, your grill by, and you know after, after a while, you could get a pretty big operation go and what was your answer to that, what should have been, what would you have liked to have seen in that state for the system they set up to employ or utilize medical cannabis for the patients. Well, what I did was I saw that basically in all medical programs the bottleneck is the doctor, and without doctors.

Unknown 7:20

You can’t have a program. So, what he was doing is he was bringing people in from outside. Initially it was an in state doctor but then what I did is I filed a complaint with the State Board, the state medical board and said this is what’s going on. And when he found out that that I, you know, that I reported the doctor, he just simply fired her and, and brought in somebody from out from outside the state. So, So the state board knew what was going on, and they could have intervened, they could have like done something, you know, what could they have done, maybe they could have outlawed or made some provision where you couldn’t, you couldn’t have clinics outside of your office, so that would have eliminated these carnival clinics has. It sort of reminded me of the dead show. I mean, yeah, that’s it that’s a bad thing but I mean, atmosphere, the dead show us is for great music and beyonds and medical marijuana is for something entirely different, though, down here in Florida, the majority of people I see in the dispensaries are all old farts. They’re there for real remedies for aches and pains and surviving, you know, elder life. And the young people I see coming in. They’re hobbling in there 100 pounds overweight already. They got issues they’d rather not be dealing with at that young age, but they’re there for a reason and it’s not to get high. Oh my gosh and Michigan then you just have to sign a piece of paper, whatever cannabis candy store you walk into that says, you understand that they have not third party lab tested any of their junk so whatever you buy, it’s just, you know, caveated tour. So I was wondering if you’ve seen a better system, you know, I don’t know how you guys are operating in New York, and what they did, they say, you can you can smoke it but you can’t buy it you can’t sell it and you can’t smoke it in public and can’t smoke it in the apartment complex, but, you know, good luck with that it’s legal here somehow. If you’re Willie Nelson you smoke it on the roof of the White House.

Unknown 9:41

Yeah, well, in terms of New York.

Unknown 9:44

I mean after, after what happened in Montana. I mean, I took a pretty big hit. I bet you did, but financially and emotionally, and I just hobbled back to the ER, and, and, in New York is kind of a interesting state, but health has a tremendous amount of power. I just frankly didn’t want to deal with. I don’t do any kind of cannabis clinics in New York at all, and actually haven’t done any cannabis medicine since 2012 Really, I mean I’m looking to get back in. But do you still have whole health and healing, yeah, did I still have it. I still have people that call me and I’ll do console’s are all, you know, make a house call or something but.

Unknown 10:37

Yeah, and I guess what I’m, what I’m hoping to do is expand that, especially since COVID is sort of opened up the whole telemedicine thing, right, um, you know see folks, But for me it’s been an issue of trying to find my grounding in terms of where I belong in this space, and even in fact, if I belong in this space, because it’s an odd space, I mean it’s just, I agree that, you know, I mean, you get people that are that are suffering on multiple levels. And yet, people that have that that are that are self medicating for mental health disorders, and they’re using the wrong products and they’re using contaminated products and they’re not strategizing, and they’re not micro dosing, and they’re still using Street weight. Oh my god it’s making me crazy. I want to help them all so badly. Yeah, and I was involved in a conversation last night with somebody on LinkedIn, and talking about the issue of cannabis contamination, and a couple of articles and I said, sent them to the person, and I mean it’s a, it’s a real issue. I mean there are a couple stories, of, of cannabis contamination that we ran into in Montana with the lab, there’s a story of the guy who broke a mercury thermometer in his hydroponic in the hydroponic grow and when he told me he was saying, yeah, when he told his boss that gee, he’s sorry that he that he ruined the, the crops. The guys. What do you mean, quarter million dollars a pot. Nobody’s gonna know that’s gonna know. That’s right, He was right, nobody’s gonna know until their kids show up with half a brain. Yeah, you know, over, over the period of time when I was pretty active. You know, we started a, an organization called the Alliance for cannabis science. Yes, and it was a group of people, a group of chemists, mostly chemists I was the only physician, and who were, who had labs and, you know, the idea is that you had to test, you know, regulate the labs, yes, sort of, you had to have some sort of level playing ground where everybody agreed that this was the methodology that you were going to use, they’ve got to create an SRP for all of that and they’ve got to make standardize that across the United States and probably around the world, and what is keeping you from a line of 18 Wheeler laboratories that go from state to state testing Wait.

Unknown 13:22

Did you just go down to the basement. No, I went upstairs where I thought I could get a better signal. Oh, I’m happy. Yeah, the yard man came today of course so I’m in the closet my husband’s closet.

Unknown 13:39

I guess the closet can be a safe place to be. Yeah, and then I’ve got these five little walls, scratching on the door one, Wondering what’s mama do it in the closet, can I come into, you still have puppies. Yeah, well I’ve got my girlfriend and I, we just got a.

Unknown 13:57

We just got a dog, just before Christmas, just after Christmas, and so it’s the first dog that I’ve had for a while but you know I, I had, I had a number of dogs.

Unknown 14:08

Here we had 13 dogs for a while and it was kind of crazy, but it was really, it was really kind of interesting.

Unknown 14:18

I never felt more safe and all my life and having, having all those dogs or loved all that affection, all the time you being the leader. I even know that you had a college German Shepherd mix named honey.

Unknown 14:33

Yeah, it was the, it was actually the best gift that my sister ever gave me. That is so precious, Really, and God what wonderful creatures, mixed breeds. To be sure, but this Collie and shepherd mixes, man, they’re smart as whippersnappers, so let me just have suit, so there are, there are mobile labs in Florida.

Unknown 14:57

Now I’m wondering what’s keeping you from starting a fleet of mobile lads on 18 wheelers that go from state to state that so desperately need that. And you could write the ESOPs for that. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, right after you get through with your, with your new book on science Kaina and what was that it was the, what was your science club called the Science, yeah the alliance, the light, yes. Yeah, I mean it was a, I mean it was actually it was an international group, I mean, saying, now you know you look back and you say oh well, well of course, but in 2009 I mean, I mean in 2009 nobody had heard of CBD. Oh god no, you know, basically to him basically cannabis testing was all about, you know THC and right, and just to see how much you had and now now, What what the concentration was and I refer to it in the book as as an arms race, you know, who could have, you know who can have the, you know who can grow, grow the most concentrated weed.

Unknown 16:08

And in the slave I need an attitude adjustment about this, this plant, and, and what we need to be using it for, I don’t have any problem with people wanting adult use. I do have a problem with people not using it cleanly and and mindfully. It’s just stupid to to ingest a product with over 500 compounds in it you don’t know what the is in it. Yeah, yeah, it’s stupid. For me, I kind of broke onto the scene if you will, nationally, briefly, I went to a patient’s out of time conference. It was in Providence, Rhode Island, and at the time it was a biannual conference and so those there and I was telling people about our lab at that time in the country, there were three labs in the country. Now, I knew that somebody was already doing it. Steve de blows. Oh yeah, keep it all lab. Yeah, that service harbourside, which is you know I mean I have to give him credit because, you know, I saw the article by Louise Parker on the cover of Fortune magazine in September 2009 And it said is weed already legal and I was in the Minneapolis Airport on the way to Bozeman, to do some clinics and I saw it I picked it up, I’m like, Huh, you know, they’re doing, they’re they’re actually testing this stuff, I’m like wow what a what a novel idea it’s no kidding. You know, I had the idea, to his credit, a guy that was as busy as he was even back then. I sent him a note on Facebook, and he replied to me, and I was shocked, and, and, and he, he gave me like a 15 or 20 minute interview in November of 2009 and gave me some ideas, but I’d already been looking into to starting lab and I’d already made contact with my, with my Dutch contact, but you know we brought a, we brought a Dutch chemist who was, you know, probably the leading analytical chemist in the world on cannabinoid analysis and we brought him to Montana and he he trained our. He trained my partner. And so how’s he doing, and where did he go, where did he end up, you know he’s circulated through the industry.

Unknown 18:32

I saw him last. In 2019 Just before COVID hit, he was giving a lecture on CBD, and, and whether you know, basically the contamination of dosing issues that he’s with CBD. And so he’s given a talk in Berlin at the ICRP conference, and I saw him there, and he’s got a he runs a master class where he takes a bunch of students and, and he has like, I don’t know it’s like a two week maybe course we’re he brings in speakers and trains people on, on the right way to do cannabis, and he’s doing independent consulting right now. Good. What would be your most important message to our audience about cannabis. Well, I think that you’re a cannabis activist, if you have an idea that this isn’t the devil’s weed like it’s been purported to be that, you know, from my perspective, the most important thing that people can do is push the federal legislation over the finish line, because you know my story about what happened in Montana is a real life example of what can go wrong, calling your legislators, calling your, your, you know, the people who represent you in the house, the people that represent you in the Senate, calling the White House, and just put pressure on these people, because that’s to get real with cannabis, it’s it’s got, I mean, it’s got to be, it’s got to be rescheduled or D scheduled, I mean I don’t I don’t really have an issue with it, you know, being, you know, rescheduled to schedule three, you know, The talk right now is D scheduling it completely.

Unknown 20:26

But, you know, I can understand the rationale for not wanting to completely lose control over it because of because of THC, because he didn’t want people are not saying is that you can control the THC, they’re not teaching people to control their THC by micro dosing, they’re not telling them about the contamination either. That’s my whole soapbox, is, is the problem of contamination, and Florida. They’re scared shitless of getting high, because they’ve been so propagandized but you talk to somebody from Colorado or California comes over here, and man, they’re just all about getting high, and they just want to know how much you know what that percentage of THC is in that joint they’ll give a shit about what all the rest of the stuff does. And they don’t microdose, they just pop up up up up up up. And that’s not, you know, I don’t again, I don’t have any problem with somebody wanting to you know get high. I don’t have any problems with that. But when you look a little deeper, why you want to get high, or what the medication of cannabis really helps you with.

Unknown 21:42

Yeah, I mean, you know you get into a whole issue of judgment on that and it’s something that I’m a little bit lucked into get into too deeply because when things went down completely in Montana. I mean, I had friends who would call, they that, that it beatings people, you know that there were people who you know who made death threats. Oh my god, threatened that that I sold people out and stuff and I guess on some level, I was glad that I was, you know 1800 miles away. I put everything that I had into, into my business into the lab into my clinic, and I tell it, I could tell that by your by your writing I felt your absolute little heart beating through that whole event. It took what, two years. How many well from start to finish, I mean, the the lab, you know, we ran our first samples in January of 2010, basically ran our last samples, maybe March of 2011 and only open like 14 months but, I mean, it shows the fear just to kind of catch up with with kind of some of the other things you said, the fear that some of your friends have about using CBD when people tell me the well what kind of CBD should I get one that’s readily available I just recommend Charlotte’s Web. I did too. I do too. I absolutely do. I love Charlotte’s Web. Are you familiar with a doctor Dustin Souillac, he’s a dear. Okay, so I took his healer course I’m certified I, you know, he’s got this fabulous new product, this is CBDa oh right, sure. Back here in Melbourne and I’ve got all these old lady issues and I go to a neurologist for the first time, who happens to be a cannabis friend of mine, but he’s also the first pot doctor in Melbourne Florida so I go to him and he runs all these tests on me and next thing you know, I go back to him and he says okay, and I’m scared shitless he’s gonna tell me I’ve got to have surgery and lalala. He says, I want you to go to M UV this dispensary a particular one, and get some RSO.

Unknown 24:08

I’m doing like a, you know, double take what. And he said, You know, it’s time, he said you’ve been living with bolting and herniated discs for, you know, a long, long time, and it’s time for you to kick your, your cannabis up so that you can control your manage your pain. Oh and then I want you to get some gel patches. Oh, he said, you know, go get a second opinion from a surgeon, if you feel like you want one, and I’ll also order some nerve blockers and any anti inflammatories for you and I’m saying why do I need extra in plant, you know, any inflammatories once cannabis did the trick. He said, Oh yeah, oh yeah well he said just in case you know, he’s just, just wanting you to, you know, have all that you need. Okay, so I went and I got my RSO and my gel patches and cheese I’m feeling so much better. Yeah, that wasn’t very Gordon was it. I adore Dr. Berry is so cool and Patty too and they’re a little puppy. No, but he’s, he’s a buddy of mine and I see him at conferences. And so, and and he has. Let me attend his rounds with him, and I tell everybody he’s got the gold star clinic of cannabis clinics in Florida, I kid you not. He has an amazing system set up and it’s just beautiful, visit him whenever you can. And yeah, I’m really looking forward, you know, for when people feel comfortable, you know, having meetings and getting together because there’s a, there’s a number of. There’s a number of individuals, physicians that that I’ve just been gobsmacked by their by their knowledge of cannabis, and scientists as well I mean, we have a clubhouse room on nine at nine o’clock on Saturday mornings, it’s called cannabinoid science in the human body. And we, the first time I participated was a couple weeks ago and I was, I was stunned by the bandwidth that was in the room, I mean, we had an immunologist from I think either NYU or Columbia.

Unknown 26:28

We had a neurologist from Phoenix, oh my gosh, we had. I mean just there just a number of people that you know Barry, Barry chimed in and just, I mean it’s just because there’s, there’s a ton of, there’s a ton of data out there and one of the things that I would encourage, you know, would people do it always comes up in, in the room, where can people find information. Right. You know, I’m completely self taught. I mean, by and large I mean I’ve gone to, you know, went to a conference I learned some stuff but I mean, but by the time I went to the conference I mean I, everything that I learned about cannabis for the most part was, was self taught, and I would go to PubMed, you know, right, right, all the citations, all of those white papers they’re fabulous. I hang out there to and research gay, all of that in Ch has, has a pretty good stuff on it, that you know people people think well I can’t read a scientific paper, you know it’s too complicated. No it’s not, but you know if you, if you read the introduction to every paper I mean that’s the purpose of the introduction of a scientific paper is to present the problem. Yes, in common layman’s terms to to know why you’re researching, or, you know, to see what it is that you’re investigating. Right. Well, I would encourage everybody to go to PubMed and type in whatever you want. And, yeah, and cannabis and diabetes cannabis tumors cannabis and Alzheimer’s cannabis and whatever your issue is or your question is, and it will come up cannabis and everything because the bar is, you know, and the reason that it works and I guess this is another important point to make is the endocannabinoid system, you know, which cannabis, you know modulates, but but but it’s not just the endocannabinoid system that modulates cannabinoids, you know, have an effect on on a myriad of cellular receptors from adenosine to opiate receptors to serotonin receptors dopamine receptors, I mean it’s, you know, it’s, it, they, They call it promiscuity.

Unknown 28:48

That’s correct eight

Unknown 28:51

molecules especially CBD if you look at the interactions that CBD has with other receptors, I mean it. There’s like 30 or 40 different cellular receptors that that interacts with. And so, so the point is that the endocannabinoid system is the most fundamental receptor system on the planet. I mean it was the primordial receptor it dates back, you know, 600 million years to sea squirts. And isn’t gonna say the same thing. I love telling my audience. Did you know that there’s an invertebrate down at the bottom of the ocean it’s never seen the light of day, that has an endocannabinoid system of receptors just like you and me. Yeah, I mean it’s it’s it’s a little bit different but I mean, it’s been characterized as a primordial cannabinoid receptor. I love that. And so, so cannabinoid receptors were the first receptor system that evolved in in vertebrate and invertebrate biology.

Unknown 29:54

I mean, interestingly, the only the only creatures on earth that don’t have cannabinoid receptors that we know of at least that at this point are insects. These features are, are the way that cells communicate with each other so, so, it’s, it’s the telephone system it’s the, it’s the cell phone system that cells have to communicate with each other, not only next to each other but, you know, across the body they keep through doctors. And so that’s what’s important for, for those people who don’t really have much who slept through biology class. Yeah, cuz that’s all on a molecular level. Yeah, yeah. And when our cells start whispering to us on a molecular level. If we pay attention we can help them right along. Oh yeah hey what do you what do you what do you think about da eight coming out of CBD now. And on that same, I think that it’s another example of, of people pushing boundaries, people.

Unknown 31:03

Yeah, I think that it’s, that it’s, that it’s rogue, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a good word for it. Yeah, I’d agree with that, it’s clearly schedule one.

Unknown 31:15

And it’s a way of dispense of dispensary’s to sort of cheat cheat the system. Yeah I mean it’s a smoke and mirrors thing about well, it’s not th it’s not delta nine is delta eight. Right.

Unknown 31:30

Gonna be delta, delta nine not delta a. Right, exactly a couple of 10 year olds, yeah. And so, you know, and I think that it’s, you know, I think that the industry has to come to terms with that. And they that you know we, this is what we want, this is what we’re people were willing to work with law enforcement, you know, we want to make you want to be legitimate, but but when but and what I can say is the deltaic market has exploded. I was recently I was in I know I saw our, I was in a place in Kentucky, just last just last week and and it was a CBD shop, and this whole, you know, you know, tie dye and tarot cards and, and it’s a head shop, but but yeah it’s so but I asked him, I said, So are you selling Delta eight, And she goes, Yeah, it’s crazy, told the person it’s like well you know it’s still illegal and you know you could really get in trouble for this and thing that I learned about the, the FDA and especially the DEA is, you know, you think that they’re not looking, until you’re in handcuffs. I mean, you know that and they’ve sent letters to two labs, the, the dispensaries and, you know, at some point, you know, I haven’t heard of any, any raids.

Unknown 32:57

Recently, The last big grades I know about we’re I think it was March 14 2011 When, when, when the when the Feds and officials raided nine dispensaries in gross Cana, and ended California simultaneously. Yeah, I remember all that on the news that was just lousy. What about but listen, they just fired a bunch of people at the White House because they had, you know the test for cannabis and that just pissed me off. Well, you know, I I’m glad Old Joe’s there but Hells Bells, it was his fault, we’ve got this fucking mess to begin with, pardon my French, well I mean he’s, he’s, he’s, I mean, the 94 crime bill was his legislation I mean, it was his landmark piece, basically responsible for the start of the prison industrial complex. Yeah, prop for profit prisons. Yeah I mean it’s crazy, and I just I’m very very skeptical of any of any of this happening while he’s still alive. I would say we have a better chance with Mama and Camila doing something Boris, than we do from Oh, Papa Joe. Well, you know, when you look at her record as I know, Gary ADA is not markedly pro Canada’s either. No it’s not. And this is another reason why people need to just, you know, it’s like buying a house. Do your homework, wait to move in, wait to put up the dog fence until you until you finish closing.

Unknown 34:46

Don’t do this until it’s you know, I mean, that actually happened to us one time, I mean, we,

Unknown 34:54

we bought a house, and we, we, in we are 13 dogs we bought a house in Western Kentucky, and on a handshake, you know, the guy’s you know good guy and everything and then you can move in and, and then to get a call from the bank and you know, closing is set for the end of the week we got a call from the bank. He says, Yeah, Mike, I want you to know that this guy’s just committed he’s, he’s, he’s changed the deed, and any setting, can’t have. You can’t have more than five dogs, and, and we’re like, you know, and we’d already, we would pay $5,000 to put up a fence Oh my God.

Unknown 35:33

You know you get so excited you think oh nothing can go wrong, but again, and then it does, if you read the book, it tells you exactly what can go wrong and they can go wrong, it can it can put your entire program on life support, and that’s what happened in Montana in, you know, for five years until until people were able to, you know, recover and gather enough energy to to put together another citizens initiative that covered the issues that weren’t covered in the first instance initiative in 2004. So, so this idea that that party’s for, I mean it’s not I mean, I just, I just can’t emphasize enough how important it is to you know to to organize people and for them to call and call and call their congressmen and call this out on the federal level because yes, because that’s, you know, people forget because you know we’re so ignorant of civics. This is still a Federalist system is a rule Trumps every situation. And we’re still feudal to still a lot of things that I would. Yeah man, but you know journey of 1000 miles begins is the first step and you know and I’ve actually thought about, you know, this idea of a, you know have a cannabis Green Party that that has, you know that has three, you know that has a triad of of issues that that they stand on, you know, prison, and drug reform, Because the, the issue of prison reform needs to happen I mean, what’s, what’s going on in, you know, solitary confinement, and the death penalty, Dostoyevsky said, you know, a culture is judged by how they, how they treat their inmates. That’s right. I can’t believe you just quoted that I just read that like four days ago, for t Holtzman from the compassion Prison Project she talked about that with Charles Eisenstein on one of his podcasts that anybody to those two those two folks because they are there they were amazing individuals.

Unknown 37:48

You mentioned my buddy herb Rosenfeld to in your book and I was so pleased to see that he’s so precious to me. Yeah, you know Yeah, and that’s the other thing people don’t understand and congressmen don’t understand you know people, people always go back and they talk about, well, the FDA says it’s a schedule one substance, well yeah, it is a schedule one substance, but you know that the federal government is still providing cannabis for a handful of individuals now through the, through the IND drug program. Yeah, the, you know herbs GearUp herb bank, all my medicine. Yeah, you know, and, you know, in, he, he, he made it on the back of Mr Randolph, who was the first patient, to, to pressure the government, to, to allow him to use cannabis legally as a medicine. So, so, so this whole, you know, and that’s the other thing that I feel really strongly about is that we wouldn’t be having any kind of discussion about, about recreational use about using psychedelics, if it wasn’t for, for, for medical use, and patients who need it. Exactly. And yes, there’s absolutely no question, cannabis can be used as a medicine that as well as a million other things you know they’ve already made an airplane out of cannabis. Yeah, I mean the idea that people, you know, that people should know that cannabis is a broad designation of have Suceava and included in in that in those varietals is hemp and all the things that hemp can do. I mean, the idea of making biodegradable plastics out of hemp hempcrete for as substitute for concrete.

Unknown 39:36

You know, I mean it’s just using for feed.

Unknown 39:41

I mean it’s just, I mean it really is it’s it’s it’s a plant that had a million purposes. And that’s why, why we, you know how you can outlaw a plant. I just don’t understand that. I mean, well that’s the corruption, sorry to the audience for all the echo you may be hearing at the moment I’m walking through the house trying to get away from the lawn mower, Again, the joys of working from home.

Host: Honey 26:57

You’ve been listening to another Cannaba Verum podcast with 21st century cannabis shaman Honey Smith Walls, about the importance of using safe hemp and marijuana products. Unless otherwise proven by a reputable third party lab test, please be advised that all street weed is contaminated. It may do grave harm to a patient with a delicate immune system. I challenge you to check the veracity of my statements in each episode by checking the medical citations posted on my blog at Cannaba Verum.com.

That’s C A N N A B A   V E R U M.com

(4) Certificate of Analysis (COA) https://www.pharmtech.com/view/certificates-analysis-don-t-trust-verify

sed that all street weed is contaminated. It may do grave harm to a patient with a delicate immune system. I challenge you to check the veracity of my statements in each episode by checking the medical citations posted on my blog at Cannaba Verum.com.

That’s C A N N A B A   V E R U M.com

  1. plant specifically grows, the acid form, the THCa –  https://academic.oup.com/pcp/article/46/9/1578/1812749
  2. all street weed is contaminated: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5022003/
  3. Handbook of Cannabis for Clinicians, Practices and Principles by Dr. Dustin Sulak – https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Cannabis-Clinicians-Principles-Practice/dp/0393714187 and healer.com
  4. Certificate of Analysis (COA) https://www.pharmtech.com/view/certificates-analysis-don-t-trust-verify

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