MoC 041 Binge 2 Dr. Leah

June 14, 2021

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Welcome to the Cannaba Verum podcast, the cannabis truth podcast. I speak the language of cannabis freely and uncensored, while educating my audience on the safe use of this live Plant Therapy. You should know what’s in your cannabis, what’s good and what’s not. It does not come with an FDA stamp of approval yet, using cannabis mindfully, as medication is a different concept in the healthcare philosophy of the past 100 years. There’s a lot to learn and consider cannabis is not dangerous, but it is not harmless, either. This is honey Smith walls, a 21st century cannabis shaman here to explain the language of cannabis in historical, political, and scientific terms, so you can make educated decisions about the medicine you ingest.

Unknown 0:55

Hey, my friends, get ready to hear Dr. Leah Johnson again, I am so excited that you’re back to hear more of our conversation. She’s the formally trained clinical cannabis pharmacist out in California, CEO of alcumus. Cannabis consulting holds a doctorate degree in pharmacy. Oh, on and on and on. She’s got a pedigree as long as your arm and your leg put together. I’m sure. I can’t wait for you to hear what’s going to happen today. Apologies as well for some of the silly Wi Fi experiences that we have to go through during this new era of technology. But it’s worth hanging out. Thanks for being here. And here we go. Hello, hello. Hello.

Unknown 1:46

Hello.

Unknown 1:49

Come back to me layer.

Unknown 1:53

I can hear you are

Unknown 1:54

there you are? Could you?

Unknown 1:57

Yeah, the whole time. I was like I couldn’t hear you.

Unknown 2:02

This dang Wi Fi but oh my goodness, I’m so grateful for the technology that allows us to do this, that allows you to be the pharmacist that you are helping so many people across the nation. I mean, God, thank, Dear Lord for zoom.

Unknown 2:21

Oh, absolutely. It’s like how I see most of my patients. And the way I see it as some patients are very old school where they really would like to be in front of a doctor. But the way I see it is I’m not going all of the labs I get will be provided by your will be you know, I will need to get from the patient, which you know, given to them by the provider the last time

Unknown 2:43

on any year I

Unknown 2:43

have the I let the patient know that I need to have the most updated labs for them so that I can look for everything. So I mean, it’s it allows me and so some people want to be in person I explained to them, you know, hey, I’m only in California so you would have to be in California to see me in person and be I don’t it’s not like I have a separate office like everything I do is virtual, it’s all remote. And I can you know work with their doctors remotely.

Unknown 3:11

I work with them remotely.

Unknown 3:12

I work with it.

Unknown 3:16

I can’t hear you.

Unknown 3:17

You can’t hear me.

Unknown 3:18

There you are. Okay. I don’t know what’s going on with this crazy Wi Fi. Let me ask you a question about you being friends with all the scientists at these different kind of dispensaries and curious who’s making the decisions for broad spectrum products? And what’s the criteria for choosing the chemo bars in those products?

Unknown 3:42

So

Unknown 3:46

it might be different in different states in California right now they’re the biggest focus is really just CBD and THC which is also another problem I have with a California dispensary. So in the state of Connecticut and I find them to be the best model really for medicinal they. Oh yes, by far every single product and flower and everything whether it’s a vape flower product, topical no matter what it is. It has a full and complete essay a full chemical pull up

Unknown 4:20

a real CLA on it Hmm, an

Unknown 4:23

actual CLA with actual lot numbers that go to that actual grow. And it has everything I mean has the regular things you always need to see obey, you know, make sure

Unknown 4:32

that there’s enough company.

Unknown 4:35

Exactly. And so what’s wonderful is you get a product and it says it’s got that So not only does it have a full assay of the cannabinoids, it also has a full essay on the terpenes

Unknown 4:51

for PNS, the hay

Unknown 4:54

every single product, no matter what it is, is obligated to have it so there are no No, obviously, if a product was made with an isolate, you’re only going to obviously get most of the things will be 00000 least tested and documented in California you pay based off of the labs that you order. So if you’re, you know, so why would some, you know, everybody’s just focused in California at this point on CBD and, and, and THC? Why should they pay extra money to get essays on all the terpenes? I mean, my way it’d be just like Connecticut, I think everybody needs to know exactly what’s in their medicine, to make sure that they’re always on the right medicine. So the coolest thing that I really enjoy about Connecticut, I have a patient for example, in Connecticut, what he does is he takes he will use flour because that’s his choice. He prefers to, to medicate with flour. But he does, he utilizes his flour. And if the, if the chemo bar that he used was effective, he will take the empty package and bring it back to the dispensary and say, this was really effective, we’ll say no, no, because it’s all in the label. He doesn’t even ask to ask what’s it, it’s right, everything’s right there on the label for it’s not even it’s not even a CMA is on the actual label. In it, they literally just bring the package with that labeling back into the dispensary and say, this was really effective. I would like the chemo bar you have in stock that’s closest to this. So what they what the dispensary person does the pharmacist or the you know, or the budtender, what they do is they take a look at it. And then they look at all of their ass days on the shelf. And they’re like, Okay, well, this has this percentage limonene Okay, this, okay, so these won’t work. And then they find which keema var that they have on the shelf that will match the one that you have. Now mind you, the one let’s say the the st heme of our names, let’s just say like Hawaiian haze. So let’s say one, let’s say, let’s say my patient had gone in, and they then they don’t use a stream of our names either for Connecticut, but let’s just say that they did use one, they said Hawaiian Hey, well, if my patient went back in the next week and wanted more Hawaiian haze, there is a huge chance that the phenotype, the actual what’s inside that keema var is completely different because of who grew it, when they grew it, when it was harvested, how long they waited, what water they use, what the weather was, like, anything can change it, so everything can

Unknown 7:22

change.

Unknown 7:24

So that’s what I’m looking for the same theme of our every time is, is especially st keema bar is not effective, because you might get the exact same Hema bar name, but it’s it’s an essay is 100% different. And that’s why the essay is what’s important. It’s because the as I tells you what’s in that specific plant at that specific time, and what you can look forward to. So that way, when you utilize that to find the next effective strain, or chemo bar, then you could then use the same thing again and again. So you might be going from hundreds of different chemo bars to others that just happen to have the same profile based on that specific row. And it helps patients so much more than just oh, well I got this name before. So obviously that name is what I’m looking for again. And I mean, there are times where I’ve had patients where they’ll get a street strain or street chemo bar that has a an orange naming it, whether creamsicle, orange, G, tangy whatever. And they’ll say to me, I’m a little confused. This time I had it and it tasted like strong orange flavor. And I found it to be really effective, but then I just got it again. And the smell really isn’t there. And I don’t really find it as effective. And the answer is, well, there’s probably less Lyme and even then that was probably what was what was helping the patient. But without doing the full comprehensive toolbars as a as the full assays and getting the chemo bar and really breaking down you’re never going to know what you’re actually getting in any of your products. So I think federally that’s where we should go we have I did too.

Unknown 9:00

I really agree with you wholeheartedly but I gotta tell you, I gotta fess up. I really have barely just getting the message out to my audience that they have to check for a third party lab test on everything before they purchase and that all street weed is contaminated and that you know, most CBD products you find around here are contaminated. Oh my god find a cry on it.

Unknown 9:32

Especially in Florida, the CBD pop up that all came up and the stuff they’re selling is just garbage and crap. And so and that’s why I say to patients like you, I definitely let them know that but I always say you know or you can work with me and I will bet a dispensary for you. I will bet the products you and then that way you don’t have to worry about is it a good product just just work with me and I will make sure you’re on the good products.

Unknown 9:56

In fact, I went to a neurologist recently for some aches and pains in my hands and stuff. And he sent me to a selected dispensary to get some RSO some phaco and I was thrilled at having an experience of going to a specialist doctor, a neurosurgeon, and him pulling cannabis out of his little black bag for me. It was thrilling. Now, he happens to be kind of a friend of mine, he’s a mentor and a friend. But, you know, I went to a, I went to him as a neurosurgeon, because I was, you know, having issues. And so I mean a neurologist because I was having issues and so I chose him and, and then I had the real experience of what it could be like for a doctor with knowledge of cannabis, instead of getting me you know, lots of pain blockers and other things. He put me on a stronger dose of cannabis and said, you know, you you grew you grew all this issue over years and years and you’ve lived with it for this long, you’re going to be fine, we’re going to manage the pain and this is how we’re going to do it. So I just I loved the whole experience and I’ve been trying to tell other physicians and and you know patients alike This is what it’s supposed to be like, this is what it was like before 1900 1937 when it was all outlawed.

Unknown 11:40

And and that’s the problem is that a lot of I mean the biggest thing I find that the patients because the patients I usually work with are usually about I mean I work with any age but I would say my patient population is usually like 15 above and it’s usually just patients that are just sick of it sick of all the meds sick of not feeling were you know, normal and just sick of all of it and the one thing I always you know focus on is that you need to really you know, so like for example like I you know, I always explain to people you probably will need some of some things you know, you might need some pharmaceuticals plus some herbal plus some cannabis to balance out everything you can’t just it fits all it’s not cookie cutter and um you know I always you know and even with like ESET like you know RSO you know I wait on you know actually her so I jumped for I usually I’ve done a lot of people off of narcotics by just actually just doing edibles by Yep, because you can. The nice thing about edibles is what I found is that THC is very effective for neuropathic pain, but C does THC, CBD is more effective for periphery for tea as CBD is more effective for like periphery pain, arthritic pain, just anything where it’s outside of the brain anything that’s caused by the brain which has neuropathic pain, or or phantom pain for people who’ve had their appendages amputated. Those people do better with the THC because you’re trying to calm the mind from the pain so it’s what you use but i mean i’ve i’ve luckily been able to get you know a lot of my patients who have gone have been able to get off both anti anxieties and pain meds based on us utilizing you know, a little bit of a little bit of THC and CBD dosing throughout the day and then at night

Unknown 13:35

Wow, what’s your favorite keema var and why

Unknown 13:44

I would say that my favorite terpene would be alignment and just because I’m one of the things I deal with is anxiety and I and why money is one of the best one of the best terpenes for both anxiety and depression and then so it does give you I wouldn’t say euphoria by any means but it definitely gives you a like kind of a positive effect

Unknown 14:09

almost groundedness Yeah, brightness

Unknown 14:12

exactly like a little bit more happy. And then for cannabinoids honestly my I don’t know why it’s even become my favorite but it’s become but CBN so

Unknown 14:25

cannabinol

Unknown 14:27

no no cannabinol CBD

Unknown 14:30

that’s kind of a dial. Dial. Yeah,

Unknown 14:33

I did you say cannabinol

Unknown 14:36

CBN is that canal

Unknown 14:38

um,

Unknown 14:40

actually you’re getting me on that I’m not sure the the N at this point I’ve just hit this point I ended up using so many

Unknown 14:49

I know an acronyms I get a little confused myself but you were talking about I thought you said CB n so tell me why you like Yeah, yeah,

Unknown 15:00

yeah cannabinol I’m not really sure why that was wait because it can have an all Yeah, sorry. I apologize just a lot of times people utilize the word Pranab. And also with cannabinoid energy. My brain was a fake sounds like it’s not konoba Jiro, which is the CBG Oh, yeah,

Unknown 15:18

right cam chair. All right.

Unknown 15:20

I was going through mentally all of them in my head. I was like, wait,

Unknown 15:25

I don’t know how you do that. And I know you’ve got a million drugs in your head.

Unknown 15:30

So yeah, I got it. The reason

Unknown 15:34

why CBN I like it so much is because it is so the reason that they found Delta eight was because of CD. Yeah, and of course, and because because what happens is that in the process of deep, deep, deep carboxylation and breakdown of the cannabis plant, you start with, I believe it’s CBD a and then cbda goes to THC a and it goes to CBD. And then THC A goes to THC, THC then goes to delta A and delta 10 and then delta A until 10 then go into CBN so it’s all the way on the breakdown through oxidation and decarboxylation depending on which method but the breakdown or the chemical breakdown of the plant and how it gets there. So what happens with CBN is CBN has not as much euphoria as the THC does, it focuses more on the sedation. So the reason why I like CBN is because it depends on who you work with if you’re working with a patient who are is already on THC therapy, I find that because what happens with a lot of patients especially who are get age who actually get their anxiety induced by cannabis which is actually quite a quite a lot of people there

Unknown 16:52

yes it is. More people get anxious on cannabis than I realized and I yeah maybe one of them

Unknown 17:00

and that’s because people are using to higher doses of THC and not

Unknown 17:03

addressing it incorrectly.

Unknown 17:06

Definitely so what I explained to them is so for people going to bed a lot of people will take like a tent five to 10 milligram gummy if not more, to help keep them asleep. So what I explain is let’s back off on that a little bit. Do the THC you know if these people are tincture or vape users are flower users at in the evening before bedtime to get themselves sleepy and they’re utilizing THC I say okay, keep doing that however, about an hour before you want to go to bed, use the sublingual CBN and see it and then what ends up happening is I was explained this THC is being utilized to knock you out the CBN is being utilized to keep you asleep so they do have different things with

Unknown 17:51

that is a really good tip but to CB income as an isolate

Unknown 17:58

yep so I mean now mind you I always obviously like everybody would say I obviously as much the full spectrum as possible. There is a company called level is le ve l there is a chance you might be able to get it online only because it’s not THC. So they should be able to mail it but I’m not sure but the company like I said it’s called level and what it would say is sleep it’s just like a little white package with sublingual tablets. And it just says sleep and it says CBN and a little white pocket with green writing. And I and so a lot of patients you know I’ve had patients who have tried it you know, but I had to see THC patients who have had to stop use th stop using THC and started using CBN to try to fix the you know, the cannabinoids that are missing. And what they found is it’s slightly better than nothing but because their body has already gotten used to the utilizing a little bit of THC to knock them out. It might keep them asleep, but it’s still not helping the falling asleep so I try my best to focus on regimens that will do that. Now. Mind you there are other patients who have never used THC and find that a combination product between CBD and CBN is effective for them to

Unknown 19:12

go to sleep is also an appetite depressant. I thought I read that.

Unknown 19:20

It might be but it’s it’s real CBD CBD is an appetite depressant.

Unknown 19:26

Really

Unknown 19:27

yes CBD actually so so THC will so if you get Marinol which is THC and that actually stimulates your appetite. CBD actually does the opposite it actually makes you less hungry. And so I what I actually recommend to patients is a lot of times the side effects they really dislike the least from cannabis or really just like you know have the most issue with is the munchies. They don’t want to be munching on things they don’t want to in hungry and so I actually have them utilize I said every time you feel this, either use a tincture or if they’re if they’re smokers, I’ll say or use a vape and What that does as soon as that, you know if a lot of people are utilizing CBD for weight loss for this specific reason,

Unknown 20:06

and you’re suggesting they use it as a rescue for when they’re hungry Well, we’ll not

Unknown 20:12

exact them if they’re actually hungry. Yes, but if if the THC is triggering appetite stimulation when they’re not actually hungry and they don’t want to, you know, gain weight,

Unknown 20:23

maybe D will will help quell that.

Unknown 20:26

Yes, because the CBD actually calls all like, you know, most of the side effects of THC so

Unknown 20:30

didn’t realize it was doing it for the appetite thing too. Oh, yeah.

Unknown 20:36

They’re very good balances. So that’s why I’m very hesitant about starting patients with CBD for insomnia because of the fact that yes, for people who have never used THC, CBD can be very calming and relaxing and can help you sleep and help you relax to then help you sleep. But if you’re somebody who you can’t sleep because you’re anxious and your mental and your mind is going and you just can’t get yourself in you’re you’re just kind of feel like you’re all over the place like almost like anxiety induced insomnia. There is very little that that CBD is going to do if anything, it might keep

Unknown 21:10

you awake.

Unknown 21:10

So I always have to work with patients because there are so many products on the market right now which is CBD for sleep CBD for sleep. And I’m, I’m looking at these, like all the patients I know would be wide awake if they took

Unknown 21:22

and doesn’t and didn’t the terpene content make a big difference?

Unknown 21:27

I mean, the terpene content absolutely helps. But it’s kind of like it’s no different than let’s say a little kid you give them Benadryl. Well, funny right now you give me Benadryl I’m, God knows what time I will wake up because I will be knocked out. Oh, me too. Just,

Unknown 21:43

it’s a great sleep,

Unknown 21:44

you give a little kid Benadryl and they are popping off the wall. So it’s all that’s why I always say every patient is different every endocannabinoids is there every body’s bottling system is different. So just because I just because patients of mine cannot sleep on CBN without the THC, or can or can’t sleep on CBD doesn’t mean that others can’t. So I always you know, we always start one way and then if I find out the opposites working, okay, well, this person is a reverse, you know, a reverse processor. So obviously, they are going to process this in a different way than most. So I will do it backwards. So I was weird. I had a patient actually who had phantom pain, I know we had to be really careful with his phantom pain because THC can’t do much for phantom pain because it’s just, it’s a really hard thing to you know, get the loss over a missing appendage to get the brain to kind of realize it’s not there. So with this one patient, I he was on low doses of THC and he was still having breakthrough pain at night and a little bit of insomnia. So I had him up the dose. Well, amazingly enough, the next day, he got work.

Unknown 22:58

And I was like

Unknown 23:01

resting, so I said, Okay, well for now. Just keep that just one more night just in case something else that had happened yet. Nope. Same response. The next night I said, You know what, do me a favor, cut out all your THC, even what you were normally used to taking cut a cut all that? He did. And he goes, actually, that was one of my best leaves I’ve had in a while. And I’m not sure why. And so, you know, we tried a couple other things. And what we realized the best for him was actually to not have THC in any my unless it’s for breakthrough. So at night, he takes no cannabinoid therapy at this point. And because that’s what worked best for him. So we were talking it, you know, everybody’s like, either I’m going to be put on this or I’m but that’s not how I work with my patients, my patients are, I’m going to do something, I’m going to read how you respond because I always have my patients track their monitor their progress. And I look and I was having them, send it to me weekly, after some time, but you know, or like the next day for my new patients. And I go through it and if it says you know if I see that your pain level is crazy one day, and then and you weren’t able to sleep and then I remove something and it gets better well as the clinician that’s going to tell me year there’s a reason we can’t have you on that. So, you know what we realized for my patient was that he does great if he uses it for breakthrough, but if he’s using it to pre treat, it actually doesn’t work. And that his one of his pharmaceutical medications which is gabapentin was working better for him so I know people that hate gabapentin but it works the best. And so it and that’s all it was and people were like what you took him off cannabis medicine. I go, he was hurting him. You only use a medication that works with that. Right everybody? Yeah, we were trying to figure it out. And the way I see it is obviously his dysfunction in his in his endocannabinoid system for THC was minimal. So and he would you know, but he did find utilizing CBD to be beneficial. So what we really learned is that, you know, just because you might have one disc, you know, one issue with your endocannabinoid system doesn’t mean it’s both. So, you know, that’s why a lot of times when people try cannabis and it doesn’t do anything for them, but they’re only trying it because, hey, my best friend down the street said I’d have you know, have you know, and they say, Oh, I felt nothing. It’s because you weren’t supposed to feel anything because you’re don’t need it for any reason. It’s not treating anything, you’re wrong, because you’ve got nothing wrong. But the people who have things wrong it will treat so for this patient, his THC system was fine. His CB one receptors were fine. But his CB two were not. And that’s really and that makes sense. Because if you think about

Unknown 25:47

it, most of this issue works. I love your conclusion. That’s just it’s amazing. Hey, everybody, you can catch the conclusion of my conversation with Dr. laya. On the next Canada verum episode wherever you listen, but in the meantime, if you’d like to get in touch with her, please do so add her email. It’s a little complicated. So here we go. It’s d r dot L e h at alkemist. Cannabis consulting.com Let me say the whole thing properly for you. Dr. dot layer at alkemist cannabis consulting.com. But don’t stop there. You can also catch her via text messaging. If you need her immediately. Call her private cell number can you believe she gives us to it? Give it to us freely. Here it is. Area Code 408418880 to text dr layer again at area code 408-418-8802.

Host: Honey 26:57

You’ve been listening to another Cannaba Verum podcast with 21st century cannabis shaman Honey Smith Walls, about the importance of using safe hemp and marijuana products. Unless otherwise proven by a reputable third party lab test, please be advised that all street weed is contaminated. It may do grave harm to a patient with a delicate immune system. I challenge you to check the veracity of my statements in each episode by checking the medical citations posted on my blog at Cannaba Verum.com.

That’s C A N N A B A   V E R U M.com

  1. plant specifically grows, the acid form, the THCa –  https://academic.oup.com/pcp/article/46/9/1578/1812749
  2. all street weed is contaminated: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5022003/
  3. Handbook of Cannabis for Clinicians, Practices and Principles by Dr. Dustin Sulak – https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Cannabis-Clinicians-Principles-Practice/dp/0393714187 and healer.com
  4. Certificate of Analysis (COA) https://www.pharmtech.com/view/certificates-analysis-don-t-trust-verify

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