This is Honey Smith Walls, a 21st century cannabis shaman here to explain the language of cannabis in historical, political, and scientific terms, so you can make educated decisions about the medicine you ingest.
Hello, my friends. Although 82% of my audience at this point are women. I’m sure my next guest will affect you as much as he did me. And for those who served in the military, this next series will certainly take you through a mindful of memories.
But I can’t wait for you to meet a live poet warrior, a Marine who had the grace to understand the bigger picture and facilitated the security of hill-tribes destined to enslavement by ruthless human traders.
Meet Word Master Mike Tucker, author of 48 books and counting all to be found on amazon.com and links in the show notes. You may be wondering what this counter intelligence operative who traveled the world and service to our country and helping defenseless tribal nations avoid a horrific turn of events, has to do with cannabis. Well although he’s an advocate for freeing the plant his stories center mostly around his experiences in serving our country and others.
But I met him through another friend on LinkedIn, and found his stories irresistible. And I thought you would to. Never did I think for an instant, Mike Tucker would be so generous with his time. I couldn’t stop the recording and we talked for a whole series of podcasts. I hope you’ll find him as entertaining as I did, and enjoy your quarantine travels today as we globe trot with this gentle rogue.
Please help me welcome award winning author and hero to many, Mike Tucker.
Hey, it sounds like I’ve got Mike Tucker on the phone.
Mike Tucker 3:23
Okay, can you hear me. I can hear you, honey. How you doing, well I’ll tell you what it is we said in Afghanistan, in Iraq, and for me also behind Burmese army lines and in Spain on that 24th 1981… It ain’t like losing an arm or a leg but, you know, we’ll figure it out!
Honey Smith Walls 3:45
I’ve already been halfway around the world with you.
Mike Tucker 3:52
It all started in Spain on that glorious day when I discovered the wisdom of Hemingway and just how right he was to fight the good fight. And…
Honey Smith Walls 4:04
Wait wait wait… backup, backup for our audience and I have not even said a syllable about you other than. Hello, this, dear audience, if you are not already aware of one of the most prolific writers of our time. His name is Mike Tucker, he’s got a whole slew of incredible books out on Amazon, and if you’re looking for a true story of great intrigue and courage. Please join us right now for a conversation with Mike Tucker. Hi, honey. Hello,
Mike Tucker 4:50
Honey, Honey. Remember, we SMOKE the sacred herb, because it is righted, and glorious, and I must say on public record here, federal law to legalize the sacred herbs in all states and territories in the United States, I’m on public record and rock on America.
Honey Smith Walls 5:14
Yeah, no kidding. Thank you for that my. Tell us, when did you first experience the sacred herb and I love the story behind those two words for our precious plant, that you told me earlier but tell our audience, when did you first experience the pleasure of the sacred herb?
Mike Tucker 5:37
Well I’ll tell you what, I didn’t truly, That’s an excellent question. And God bless all the folks listening in. I didn’t truly experience the sacred herb until the first mission behind Burmese army lines, we saved 11 Paukinyaun, also known as the Ka ‘ren, hill-tribes people… one of them was a three year old girl who later on got married and she’s got a daughter in Northern Thailand now. Mercy She’s. She’s 31 Now
Honey Smith Walls 6:10
You stayed in touch with her!
Mike Tucker 6:12
Yeah, yeah, she’s 30 she’s 32 This year, I reckon she’s born 1989 and her husband. Yeah 2017 I went back and and reunited with the refugees I saved from that first mission. And I was, I was alone on that mission I was a freelance samurai. And I’ll never forget the look in her eyes when she was crossing the Salween river to northern Thailand in a skiff, and I was on rear guard, we only had three. It was an ad hoc team, but God. God bless those cats we got the job done. And she was, she was looking back at me. I was still on the Burmese shore, and Drew, one who is credited with walking on one of my raiders, Drew was paddling, and it was just her and her mother and Drew, and she, she was looking back at me, and crying and smiling at the same time. That night, with the, with the Paki on who we liberated from a slave labor patrol, a Burmese army slave labor show. We took them down and liberated the Paki on that night. We’re sitting around a fire, and in the Paukinyaun way, and celebrating the whiskies being passed around and, and the tea is being passed around the Paki all drink tea with salt in it. So they crush up the salt and put some hill herbs and it’s rich, it’s a little strong but they have to use salt because you sweat so much in the tropics, of course, we’re deep in the mountains on the Burmese border on the Thai side. All of us feel very grateful to be alive and Drew and Manu and me, the team, and of course I lead the team, very grateful to have saved their lives, and the little girl wasn’t crying anymore. And her mother wasn’t crying. And it was such an incredible time, and then we passed around the sacred herb.
That’s when I truly experienced the sacred herb. Oh I had smoked it a few times, don’t get me wrong, I had smoked it a few times stateside, in my wild man days as a young poet in teens and 20s, but I never, I never truly experienced it until that night. We kept their real names, completely off public record and didn’t talk about the raid, even when I was in graduate school, I didn’t talk about the raid. It was a strange time in graduate school in that people I was around, they just didn’t get it, they, they was just like, Oh, you, you freak you. You killed these people in Burma and you save some people, it was like that was weird.
Honey Smith Walls 9:12
Oh god, they couldn’t relate.
Mike Tucker 9:15
Yeah, so you know you have to you have to put that behind you, of course, and, and keep rockin and rollin and relate in any way shape or form about survival and reality. You’re so right. Their minds were completely wrapped around abstract theories and literary theory and and critical dissing critical that and I never forget. They were so indoctrinated there was just one professor in a grad school class. And he said, nothing is real, it is only perception. And here I am in graduate school this was the fall of 96 My first semester in grad school, I’m doing my masters and literature on the GI Bill.
Now remember this is four years since I had liberated… since I’ve had the honor of liberating those, those Paukinyaun hill tribes folks from a Burmese army slave labor. And of course, as I said to that Prof. Listen what you don’t understand is, yeah, there’s times in life when you have to decide, I must do the right thing, and it’s not perception, it’s reality. And that was!
Honey Smith Walls 10:31
Yeah, that was!
Mike Tucker 10:33
wow, yeah yeah and and and to, and then he came back with, “Whoa. The Burmese army also had a point of view!” And I said yeah… “they had a point of view, until I killed them.”
Honey Smith Walls 10:45
Taliban has a point of view to
Mike Tucker 10:48
Hitler at a point of view and I’m glad that my grandfather was at D Day, you know. Yeah. Yeah,
Honey Smith Walls 10:56
Mike, how old were you when you went into the Marines.
Mike Tucker 10:59
I was, I was a young buck of 26 I still pass for 20 I had a girlfriend then was 19 when I met her she thought I was 20 in the summer of 86, but I was 26 at that time. Yeah.
Honey Smith Walls 11:17
Yeah, you have had a life you have had a life. Many, many, tell us can tell I’m start with the books and the poets, and the poetry. When did you when did you realize you were really a poet.
Mike Tucker 11:35
Oh, I realized I was a poet when I was 15. Right. That was, I realized when I would report when I was 15. And real quick, let me read you this poem. Okay, please. Because a lot of folks in New Mexico really like this mom is for a woman I met out here, Diana. Diana, she’s, she’s Mexican American, And God bless her. This is for her right. So, not for Deanna, your silly little gray, and your kind heart, and your beautiful dark guys make the moon so jealous that sometimes, it disappears for a few nights, runs away, and hides somewhere between the North Star, and Cassiopeia. The astronomers call it the Dark of the Moon, but they’ve got it all wrong Deanna, is just the stars, talking to the moon, and telling it. You deserve to see the crescent moon come back and shine in the night over Sandia mountain.
Honey Smith Walls 12:54
Oh my. Cassiopeia is my favorite constellation and talking about watermelon mountain right as you just make me tear up that’s so beautiful lucky Deanna.
Mike Tucker 13:08
A many many thanks… that poem is from “Love is a fire that never dies”, which is selling on Amazon. If anybody wants to get it they just plug in “love as a fire that never dies” by Mike Tucker, with all my books on Amazon, you have to put my name with it, of course.
Honey Smith Walls 13:26
Oh just put Mike Tucker and title on Amazon and all his books come up.
Mike Tucker 13:28
Now unfortunately, I’m not sure how that works, but there’s a, there’s a couple different writers, and other authors who are named Mike Tucker, oh well I guess so sure of course. Yes, we get the right one. The great thing is, if somebody searches for “love as a fire that never dies”. And, of course, puts my name with it, say on Google or on Amazon, they will get the direct link to the page on Amazon. And then on Amazon, they can click on the Author Central connection with my author’s bio on Amazon on any book of mine, like on “cigarettes in the rain” but one that’s out now based on the once classified historic counterterrorist operation and they’ll see.
Mike Tucker 14:24
Goodness.
Honey Smith Walls 14:27
What was your favorite book that you wrote Mike?
Mike Tucker 14:30
Well, first of all, Honey, that’s a great question, man. I have to say my favorite is “For Suzanne”, because I was in China, writing that book. It’s the culmination of a lifetime of study about the Chinese Revolution, and finally living on the North China coast, teaching at the university there. And also of course having that great honor of being the first foreigner first foreign writer first American writer first foreigner ever to lecture on them. The ZAPATA of the Mexican army a part of the Chinese Revolution, one brilliant brilliant guerilla war commander and a good man. Right.
Honey Smith Walls 15:21
What made you choose your dissertation on him. How did you find out about it?
Mike Tucker 15:27
Well I did my Master of Arts in literature, thesis I should say, was on “The Old Man In The Sea”. Now, I’m now writing the book Hemingway’s Destiny the old Massey, which is that master’s thesis, revamped luckily over 300 people have used my, my master’s thesis in their scholarship and cited in their scholarship I’m really, really honored.
Honey Smith Walls
Congratulations.
Mike Tucker
Yeah, thank you. And then with “Hemingway’s Destiny” I’ve revamped it and, and just the theme of the book is simply Hemingway’s destiny was the Old Man of the Sea, looking at “For Suzanne”, which is Volume Two in the “Journey Trilogy”. Right. It’s my favorite of all I’ve written. It was so unexpected. I was out jogging in the snow February 25 2016 My first day in China. And I was on a year contract that was renewed twice and then I chose to resign to to go to Portugal and to reconcile a whole different thing. But in that time. On that day, jogging in the snow two feet of snow. Jogging near these irrigation canals, near the north China coast near the Bohai Sea, and just pure incredible beauty. And then talking to the farmers along the way I had, I had enough conversational Chinese to talk to farmers and I lived in Asia, a long time so I knew so much about, you know, body language when communicating with folks in Asia, and. And I’ll never forget one farmer used that 75 years old at that time. And, and I’m talking with him, and he’s really stout guy you know huge shoulders about five, seven, you know, me and my grandfather Jack Tucker my father’s side. And, and and he, and we’re talking, and I pointed to this huge field, where there was a mound. And I, in English I talked about a machine gun on that mound in the, in the Chinese Revolution. Oh, and and I and I asked him in pidgin English and in Chinese. Was there a lot of fighting here and did the fighting also go up to this, this irrigation canal in the winter. Because what I was thinking of is this… exactly how I would set up an ambush on the Japanese, and on the opium dealers on Shanghai Chek’s opium in that area, which is it was the toughest area. The very tough is the area that Mao’s guerrilla fighters fought in and, and, and the guy was astounded and he said my, he said grandfather there. They had machine gun. Yes, so his grandfather was a guerrilla fighter on that mound. He gestured all over the whole field which is a huge wheat field. And, and he said, Yes, fighting here. Big fighting here, and ice. Yes. And then I realized, that’s how it went down in this field, the Chinese guerrilla fighters used the frozen canal. As an ambush point… used the machine gunner for bait, and then drew in at least a company of Japanese infantry, and then broke the ice. And so this is all in forces and, and
Mike Tucker 19:29
then I had the great good fortune of course, I was there at the university living and working with an agenda Chinese University, almost always, you’re living on campus, which makes it great because if you’re in the canteen, and you’re having lunch, one of your students has a question about like for me I was teaching. I was teaching because my background literature I was teaching, and I was the only foreign teacher there. That was in the whole university, and I was teaching Hemingway and Steinbeck. Some of Fitzgerald, and, and also I had the great freedom to teach all the great French poets that I love Rogers… had tremendous influence on me. They were having a ball. Oh yeah, it was a glorious time, and, and then of course I was nailing down from the, from that day February 25 I went back to my flat to my flat in the university, I was writing on the top a great view of the fields and, and, and I started writing forces and on that, that night, and I realized, whoa, this is gonna be a great book. So I wrote it and wrote, wrote it and then it turned into the novella forces and which is the exact right length for it, it’s it’s a mysterious thing about writing a book. Kind of takes on a life of its own, but it also determines it, how much of it needs to be told, I thought “For Suzanne” would be 340 pages, but 125 pages what it was 130 pages. It’s perfect. And, and so that’s. And the other thing about it Honey is this. I love forces and the most of all my books don’t get me wrong I want people to dig the “Rogue Trilogy”, “The Chieftain trilogy”. All right, “Love is a Fire that never dies”. But I love “Forces” the most because the reason, it became “For Suzanne” and as Hemingway at this greatest saying, “Always think about the reader”, always, always, always, so when the reader discovers that question that is natural to the book. So when the reader discovers that it’s like a triple, it’s, it’s like the triple climax of the book is just incredible. It’s just like, yeah.
Honey Smith Walls 21:59
Oh, oh it’s so intriguing it sounds so juicy and wonderful, and you write about women. Knowing you write as a woman, you write for women, that just blows me away. I don’t understand how you’re managing that but that’s what blows me away.
Mike Tucker 22:19
Yeah, I think that when you’re like we were talking about this the other day when you’re writing about a woman. You have to have as a man that is truly the first time I did that was the most difficult that I’ve done in writing. I mean I could sit down and write a 400 page novel about a three day mission in counterterrorism anywhere in the world. And it will, and it wouldn’t have, for instance, it probably wouldn’t have one woman in it, it will rock, and, and, and, and, and so be it. Okay, I could do that standing on my head.
Honey Smith Walls 22:53
Well said… you’re a romantic.
Mike Tucker 22:55
Yeah, absolutely. And this is why I, I despise Shakespeare and I dig Homer, Homer understood women. A and Homer, does not go and kill off his women penalty, you know, and also, even though I mean ways of being, Hemingway has been derided by many scholars for, oh he is borderline misogynistic or there are some literary scholars who even mother wacko, such as bah, bah, bah, but Hemingway never kills the girl. Every, every prominent woman character, and every character every female character period in his books, always makes it to the last act always survives, except with Catherine in a fair one arms, because in that situation Hemingway was writing about his second wife Pauline, who nearly died from this is Aaron, and the truth is, Hemingway saved her life. But then, Hemingway went into. Not sure if he was actually standing there the whole time or he was outside the door but he, at the time when she was bleeding out. And, and speaking frankly, which is the only way to speak and having, having seen a few folks bleed out at war. I know just how and and having saved a few lives in this situation to a war. I know just, you know how real this is and how you feel. But he, he was called in, and a nurse said, you know, we don’t think your wife’s gonna make it. And Hemingway went in and remember Hemingway had done says Ariens, along with his father, he had assistant on says that when When Hemingway was 1213 1415 years old. And in the Upper Michigan Upper Michigan peninsula, and so cool puppet. Now I call Hemingway kupah page, by the way. So Cool Papa Ah, cool Bob he went in there and in his inimitable take charge, Hemingway, I couldn’t get this done style. He told the doctor. She’s not going to die. You know, and the doctor said if you can save her saber, I can’t save. So, Hemingway then tied off everything he needed to die off, kept Pauline from bleeding out and and stitched her up and she lived. And she
Honey Smith Walls 25:31
thought utterly amazing.
Mike Tucker 25:33
Yeah, and he and she had no and the fear was there would be internal hemorrhages. After the procedure, but she had no internal hemorrhages, and the little boy, Patrick survived. And I mean wave is famous for taking things from his or a lot of folks don’t know this you know when you do deep work on Hemingway that I did, then it’s absolutely right, and necessary to share it with people, Hemingway at this habit of taking something from real life. And then he would, what we call him writing flip the switch, which means he would change the ending of how it acts. And then kidding. Yeah, and then he would write from the perspective of, so this is how it must feel for this to happen. Now that’s incredibly challenging as a writer, but I think, to be fair, from the beginning of A Farewell to Arms which is what you know we’re talking about, and the whole relationship of the real seminarian to, to the, to the death of Catherine in a fair way. From the beginning of A Farewell to Arms is to tragedy and Hemingway’s favorite writer was Shakespeare, who, who was deeply tragic. And, and who I mean, Shakespeare had a great love story in Hamlet, and he decided not to write it, think about writing as you have the hand of God. And you have to believe in a work in your heart. In order to write it. But if you don’t have it in your heart, to save Ophelia. Then what does it say about you know what I’m saying. And, and so, so Shakespeare, if he keeps a Ophelia alive.
And a few years Speaking frankly as a man, a few years, men have a saying about women, about a woman like a few, we call her the perfect baby, or the perfect woman, or the perfect lady, she’s got it all. She’s smart. She’s hip. She’s fun to be with, she makes the man feel good to be alive. And she’s great company, and she’s gorgeous, and so on. She’s the perfect woman, and there are plenty of women like that in this world of the neuron. And there, there certainly are damn sure in New Mexico, and mercy. If you keep Ophelia alive, see you as writers, you have that power, like with forces and yeah I could have written as you’ll, as you see when you read forces and when you get to the end of that, you know, people, people have the right to say anything they want about it right. So somebody say, well, well what if you have written this if what have you done this with Suzanne, that that that. Well, I wrote for Suzanne. The way I wrote forces and because I live by the maxim in counterterrorism, as in literature, as in life. Number one rule, save the girl.
Honey Smith Walls 28:46
I love that. I love that treasure. Women. Women are the Soul of the Universe. Oh thank you love for saying that. You’re very creative to say that.
Mike Tucker 29:01
at looking at Shakespeare. In, After a mission in Afghanistan, we’re sitting around talking about this because Shakespeare’s up there on the stool and, and he has this moral put on his head that that that and. And I remember in graduate school, arguing with every professor I had no he’s not the greatest writer ever if he was the greatest writer of everybody, Ophelia would have lived, it would have saved the girl killed off the leader sisters, he killed off Ophelia and in Romeo and Juliet, he proved that he cannot read a map. I will explain why. Okay.
Honey Smith Walls 29:41
Didn’t make you wonder who Shakespeare’s mother was.
Mike Tucker 29:45
Oh, it makes me think that he, he used his work as a means to exercise, as an exercise to exorcise his demons and his hatred of himself. And, and more than anything else, his hatred of his wife, because she was six months pregnant when she told him, Hey, Willie… I’m up here in Stratford on Avon and I’m down here in London today to tell you that this little baby is your baby and you know that for a fact and I know that for a fact. So you’re going to be the father, and this is, this is how it’s going to be. And I seriously doubt if he loved her, but I noticed that he’s sure spend a hell of a lot of time in London. During his life now. He, he did take good care of his daughters. And he did. Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I mean, he, when I say that he gave them all the financial support, etc, etc. And he took good care of his wife in that way too. But where was, if you really love a woman, if you, if you really believe in love. And then, and you have the means to be with that woman. You’re with her. Right. That’s it. That’s it.
And I noticed that every time, every damn time, excuse my French. Every time Shakespeare has a chance to save the girl. Every time he has a chance to really make it rock. Right. He decides no she’s not going to make it to the last act, I’m going to kill her off, you don’t kill off your woman, unless your writing, you have hand of God, The only reason a woman character dies, is because for instance, as in Farewell to Arms, it’s a tragedy, it’s it’s a terrible thing. It can’t be helped. And, and these things do happen in life sometimes the worst things do happen to the best people.
Mike Tucker 0:00
She was one of the best female characters Hemingway ever wrote about, but I noticed that, despite Hemingway’s own broken heart over his famous affair with the American nurse in World War Two, Agnes Kurowski right. Despite that, right, Hemingway didn’t go and write Catherine. As a like he, like, she’s a man hater or anything. He wrote Catherine, like a terrific woman who has a big heart. And, and a deep soul, and her soul is torn apart from when he first meets her when Frederick Henry first meets her in furrowed arms, Catherine is torn apart or ripped apart by the fact that her, her love, her lover, the man she wanted to spend all her life with, and the rest of her life with is blown to pieces in France.
Honey Smith Walls 1:22
Hey this is honey and I just wanted to take a second to tell you about podcasting with ANCHOR. It’s fun, it’s easy it’s user friendly, and it does all the work for you. Furthermore, it’s totally free. It has creation tools that allow you to record and edit your podcast, right from your phone or computer. I do it from my iPad. Anchor will distribute your podcast for you. So it could be heard on Spotify or Apple podcast and many many more. And you could make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. It’s everything you need to make a podcast in one place. So do yourself a favor, download that free anchor app today, or just go to anchor.fm. To get started, it’s so much fun.
Mike Tucker 2:34
And that relationship, and that affair and that love, that true deep love between Frederick Henry and Catherine Barclay and it is just so convincing and and so real, I mean I tell young writers all the time. If you want want to read a book, and you want to feel the love between two characters, Right. You want to feel that love, just, just read Hemingway. Unfortunately, in my view, if you want a few things I’m critical about him. But in my view, he would have been a hell of a lot better off if Homer had been his favorite writer.
Honey Smith Walls 3:20
Instead of Shakespeare. Have you ever written a character that you do not like. And you were just having a hard time writing about him because you didn’t like the character and you had to portray, you know, an SOB or something.
Mike Tucker 3:37
If I’ve ever written a character I did not like. Yeah, absolutely at the beginning of road, you’ll see that 10,000% You’ll see that and I just had to roll with it. You have to. And it’s one of the, it’s one of the few female villains in any, in fact I think she’s the only female villain in any of my books, but the title of that one is “Rogue”.
Honey Smith Walls
What 47, 48, 49th book? And I happen to know that he’s already working on two more. And so yeah I get his titles a little confused, but I can’t wait to read Suzanne, I can’t wait to read Rogue. Yeah, you’ve done a couple of trilogies have you not?
Mike Tucker 4:29
I’ve written three trilogies. The Rogue trilogy, and then the Chieftain trilogy. now the connection between the rogue trilogy and the chieftain trilogy is the hero of the Rogue trilogy Jed McCullough, is from New Mexico and he’s a real cowboy and he’s the grandson of Irish refugees on both sides. His grandfather is one of the main characters in The Long Ride, which is a civil war novel.
All right later on this fall after Paco and Giselle…. so Jed McCullough, is the hero of the Rogue trilogy and born in 1904 in Chamas, which is northern New Mexico, deep in northern and real cowboy country now. Meanwhile, that’s the Rogue trilogy, and then McCullers is, is that the helm, the anchor of the Rogue trilogy. Now his son, named Nate McCullough is born in 1960, and that’s kind of late in Jed McCullough’s life. But, Jed McCullers Jen McCullough’s wife Maria Santos. Right, heard her name up first with Nikki had to change it from Nikki, because, Nikki is a terrific lady really cool lady, but Nikki is married, and I decided that decided my Tucker’s law must abide. I’m not gonna make trouble for a married woman. I told the young snipers in Afghanistan, Honey, and Iraq I told them, You abide by this law, you never mess around, you ever make a play for a married woman. You do that, your life will be fine. Otherwise you’re there just gonna be a man at your door, the business end of the shotguns gonna be facing you, and that’s gonna be the last thing you ever see. Good words to live by. Yeah, men and women too, I might add. There you go, there you go. So then the Cheiftain trilogy is Nate McCullough. Those are the Nate McCullough stories, which is me. Well most cool and the really surprising thing about the chieftain trilogy for me writing it is when Nate falls in love, and, and gets married. I’m divorced and I got through that, and as anybody knows who’s been divorced, it’s, it’s rough. But, Nate is a guy who doesn’t get married until he’s 46 If I’m not mistaken, and his, his wife, Julie, the first time she meets him. She, she thought he was a lot younger. That’s right now in my own life when I was 46 women were telling me well, aren’t you like 34? No baby that was that was a good year. That’s a sweet baby face. Yeah and, and so she’s 27 when she meets him at 46, and, and how they need, and all of that is so, so vital to East River and amount of, I’m not going to give it a way. One of the Chieftain trilogy, which is set right in this year, really rocks, And that, that great love story of, of, Nate, and Julie, the chief is named Makala son of Gen Juan. That’s just so it just makes all the books that much better even though in terms of length, it’s not. It’s, you know, it’s not huge, it’s not massive, but the great thing is, what I learned from “the old man and the sea”…
Mike Tucker 8:53
what I learned from that great passage where Santiago reflects on his wife, and he only does that once, and, and he’s just remembering her photo or there’s a mention of her photo on a, on a stand, or in the tin shack before. Satya goes out goes out, and then there’s the great metaphor for commitment, and love and commitment, where the world of Santiago is at scene, and he remembers the, the two swordfish, and the male swordfish, following the, the female swordfish, that Santiago captured on a previous expedition out to sea. and, and, Hemingway has a great line. And he remembered the male, following the female, he loved her, and he stayed. Whoa, where it is. And there it is. Yeah. And so looking, you know, looking, looking at that as a writer too. It’s, it’s so reflective of how Hemingway, had a genius for. I only need to put something in a book once in the right place, and it will shine like a diamond. For the rest of the story, it’ll be in the undercurrent of the of the story.
Honey Smith Walls 10:25
So, that Aha thing there. Yeah, there it is. That’s right, you take that that little golden jewel. You know where you place it in your heart and that’s what you think of the book every time you think of a good book, it’s that.
Mike Tucker 10:43
Yeah it sure is. And the real life character, died here in New Mexico. In the late 30s, early 40s. Hemingway in an interview was, he talked about that he went on public record in the 50s, he was asked about different word were different characters in The Sun Also Rises based on real life people, and he said yeah, they all were. And then, and then the, the interviewer asked, What about Brett and I mean we said she, she died in in New Mexico, you know, years, years later, he gave the year, so I can’t mount I apologize to your listeners for the exact year, but that’s another thing about, about, you know how Hemingway portrayed women, Brett is as different from PLR in the bell tolls, as, as a woman I know. Who’s, who’s named Rachel, here in New Mexico, as, as Rachel is different from, from Alexa, who’s an another young lady I met out here. And, of course, of course she is. They’re two different women, you know, and right. So, and bread, and yet the way that Hemingway conveys, Brett. And the way that he describes her the way that he writes her is, is, I remember the first time I read that book I remembers putting it down I thought she reminds me, I’m wanting to say my aunt’s name, because she’s deceased now, God bless you, and I thought I’ll go ahead and say it. She reminds me and Peggy, that’s what I Oh, she reminds me I take it because aunt Peggy was a, was a very spirited woman, and lived an incredible life. Aww Lord, she was I think she was 92. When she died, and, and she, she was just such a caring, real cool incredible woman. And, and she would just speak her mind. And, and I remember thinking man Hemingway, he really can write about women. And so, so I guess you know that’s, for me that’s that’s one of the great things that got from his work, but Homer, Homer understands love is it love is the be all and end all. Homer understands that love makes life worth living. And you must save the girl, there’s no equivocation there. You must save the girl.
Honey Smith Walls 13:38
It’s not often that we get to see the construct of the inside of the man’s mind and how his how his thoughts had been determined by the influences in, in his life, but it’s, it’s real obvious with yours, you had some pretty amazing influences, who helped guide your thinking about women and it’s so impressive. I just want you know I want that book list so I can send it to all the guys I know who need a broader opinion. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely. What, why you don’t have PTSD after all of your experiences. Is it because you write. Is it because you’re a romantic. If I think of love and peace before everything else
Mike Tucker 14:36
that’s, you know, I tell you what, Honey. When I was in Afghanistan, it’s a great question, and I really appreciate how you asked that question because on recently on another podcast I won’t mention who did it. And when it was but it was absolutely the worst experience for me as a Marine veteran. It was condescending, and so on, that the idiot who, who asked me about PTSD. He was just ranting and raving and finally I just shut him down. But you asked the right question, and you asked in such a cool way, I really appreciate it. The answer your question is the same one I gave to the US Army Major in Afghanistan after four of my friends were blown away by IEDs. On the same day. And I had that one down on June the first 2009 At that time I was in a different province in Afghanistan with the different unit, unit. I was in low guard near the Pakistan border. So I told the scouts, the US Army scouts I was with and loger janss You know, God bless you. I’ll make sure you get in the book. The book ended up being called, bring the heat and then it was another book I did, based on that called taking down all caught in Hindu Kush, what he then made my way. Thanks to the US Army and 10th Mountain Division I made my way back to Ordaz where my friends had been killed, killed in action. And, and they were they were Jeff hold Matt Wilson Matt Wilson on 19 and, and OB overcrowd RWR who is whose last name is so difficult to pronounce, everybody just called him OB, and, and Matthew Ogden, who’s from Texas is 33 when he died he had volunteered for US Army infantry at 32. He was a tattoo artists he was a classic text and he was, he was the salt of the earth, real rock and he loved. He loved ZZ Top and and and. Allman Brothers and he was, he was more locked in, and Jeff Hall was said first Jeff Hall was a former Ranger and a brilliant commando great warrior, and in a good friend. And I’ll never forget Jeff Hall in the snow in January that year January night and we were deep in the snow and there were no operations because snow was like four feet, four or five feet high everywhere in the North Valley, and, and on the base we were at. Matt and shar, and Jeff pointed to the frame of frame photos of his wife and little baby, and E, and he said, I’ve been here, he’s talking about Afghanistan, and he’s been here. And I can tell you, I’m just fighting for them now and he pointed to his wife and his, his baby. And it is just, it’s just the worst situation here. But that’s, that’s what I’m fighting for Hawky called me by my, my old code name which was my nickname, and is my nickname, and I, and I said, I said, Jeff. That’s all you need brother to survive and get back to your wife a job, you know that I’m praying for you. I won’t be here on the beat with a lot of snipers in different places, but you know I’ll be praying for you. So when they, when they were all killed by ideas on a mission that completely. It completely that that mission. Completely reflects the idiocy of the Afghanistan War, when it became after January 2000 to a counterinsurgency merry go round, or as we called it in Afghanistan and on counterinsurgency go communication, all the, all these media running around kissing. General Petraeus his backside and telling him that see was and so on and so forth. But the reason that Jeff Hall and Matt and OB are dead. Are because the missions they were on were in support of reconstruction, A, the decision had been made that a road, needed to be built in the NERC Valley connecting the Jairus valley with the last person that tried that was Alexander the Great. And when Alexander the Great tried to build that road way back yonder. The patch two in the nerve Valley
Mike Tucker 19:25
took dug out the paving stones and pile them up in their fields to show just how much contempt and scorn, they had for this Greek reconstruction, eight. So Allah is in great form of this by combat engineers in the States went up toward ACC. He went up into the nerd Valley he sat down with the tribal chieftains, just like the American commanders. The Queen robots, I call them the counterinsurgency robots, sat down with the tribal chieftains in the North Valley in oh nine and broke red, and Alexander the Great broke that broke bet, and he broke bread and. And he said, Why did you guys do this, my combat engineers built a road, and they connected the nerve valley to the valley on the other side, the Joe Rez Valley. And now for the first time in the history of world, you’re going to be able to transport all your vegetables and fruits and you’ve got the best orchards and, and you’ve got grapes, you’ve got olives, you’ve got, etc etc etc and apples in the war dag before the Soviets destroyed much of Afghanistan were DAC was the apple orchard, for all of Central Asia more apples was sold from out of Ward AK and from out of the North Valley, than in the US than any other place in Central Asia. So, feed the kids, maybe a good brew for the men at night. There you go, there you go. And so, the tribal chieftains told Alexander the Great. We don’t want to be connected to the GRS Valley. We, we dug out the paving stones, Because we don’t want a road. We don’t want any of the men in the jaw red Valley, who are also patched to. We don’t want any of them coming on that road, so easily. So they can look at all women. And that is, that was the most frustrating thing about Afghanistan, the thing that at a fundamental level, the CIA never understood at a fundamental level, the Pentagon never understood, but I understood it straight away because I had lived with other hilltribes in Asia, yet. Yeah, I had lived with hill tribes that respected the walking off the mountain. The Black Law in Northern Thailand. And, and, I, I had lived in villages in northern Thailand, where women, deeply respected, and yes, where they go to school, right, with the young boys in Northern Thailand and. And so, Alexander the great sharpness, he got those, those meetings with those tribal chieftains and the pavingstones remained in the fields. Now 3000 and some odd years later, here pair come here comes the Pentagon was CIA saying reconstruction aid is the answer, the counterinsurgency will will when you’re wrong, Mike Tucker, you don’t understand the wisdom of counterinsurgency bah, bah, bah, Bah, bah, right. Sounds just like an American. Yeah, yeah, and I looked at these, I looked at, I never forget talking to a CIA counterterrorism officer after I was wounded in the Hindu Kush, this guy was part of the JSOC team at the sea department all. And by the way the US Army, and the EU and the US government period did not allow any media
Mike Tucker 23:14
on that Firebase during the seizure. I was there, the only reason I was allowed there is because a. When I was a Marine. I had secret clearance. They knew, Langley knew and the Pentagon knew that I’d been on the classified mission that became “Cigarettes in the Rain” in Okinawa, which is now the book, and, and was classified for media up to 2013. I’ve been on missions with Delta Force in Iraq. And if, if Delta Force signs off on you and says, Hey, this guy was out, then you know you’re you’re in. And so then I was attached to, US Army tank mounted snipers who was CIA and JSOC had reached out to, and said, “We need these guys as security element for this seals on this JSOC team and for also for the CIA”, so I was with those snipers. So if the snipers go, Mike Tucker goes, that’s how it was.
And, and so I rolled in and right away I knew who the CIA cats were, and they were very standoffish and I left them alone. My role in the field, when, when I was around anybody from the CIA, but especially Clandestine Service Officers like these guys… my rule was just leave them alone. I don’t need to know their name… will never speak their name, etc. And they came up to me after I was wounded, because now evidently they thought my opinion was worth something. And, and one of them said, “We’ve heard you’re a fierce critic of the CIA Pentagon long war strategy, and of counterinsurgency here. Why, why are you not supporting American policy in Afghanistan?”
I said,”Guys, look around. That mission that I was just on three days ago, where I was wounded. Yes. Both of you decided not to go on that mission. Well you were tasked with different things like I said, Okay, I understand you guys are still part of the manual encryption lab and that work. What they didn’t know was that as a ronin for the Europeans, I was also a part of something else at that time, and had been since, since oh one. So, my gosh, was anyways. So what is it wasn’t salient about the mission, that was wonderful in terms of the war. What’s salient guys, come on. You’ve got degrees from Yale, you know, you’re you’re supremely well trained in counter terrorism, You’re well read what’s salient?” And they were silent.
I said, “Okay, I’ll tell you what’s salient. We did not allow any Afghans on the mission.”
And their eyes went huge and they looked each other. And I said, “You know, that the reason for that, guys, is because we do not trust the Afghans, and I made damn sure that the snipers that I was with knew all of the, here’s how I was nearly killed because the Taliban ordered me to get killed by the Afghan nationals or the Afghan police in different parts of Afghanistan 2009.”
Yeah, yeah. So I thank God that Biden, by the way, then Vice President Biden, got his analyses, and his thoughts on the war in Afghanistan from JSOC genius guys, but he was so right in oh nine in oh nine. He was telling, President Obama, and he was, and he had the, he had the conviction, he had the backbone, he had the spine and the courage to say the things to the director of the CIA in oh nine, and the Pentagon and the Joint Chiefs and so on. He said, “You all are wrong. We have wasted billions and billions of dollars on a war that we cannot win, and the reconstruction aid is a complete and utter failure. We must remove American combat troops from Afghanistan. Now.”
Honey Smith Walls 27:51
let me ask you this, I’m dying for somebody to tell me this because I just don’t understand it.
Why didn’t they start taking out the Afghan support team before the American military. They knew this was coming. Why didn’t they do it? They evacuated the military team, I don’t get it.
Mike Tucker 28:06
Well, here’s the juice, the Pentagon, the CIA controlled the last year, in Afghanistan, just like the Pentagon had the switch the lever and the and the influence in the last 20 years. And just in in the. The reason that happened is because the Pentagon CIA had been in denial about the, the eventual Taliban control in Afghanistan since January 2002
Honey Smith Walls 28:44
So do you think that there’s American interest in the, the metal in the mountains, the I’m sorry, the nightcap. You know that goes into the batteries and stuff.
Mike Tucker 29:03
No, No, if, if, if that did, I heard that. I heard that in oh nine in the field in the booth heard it mentioned on the news, like, three times in the last two weeks so I’m wondering,
Mike Tucker 29:17
right, right. Well, one thing is one thing is honey. And I mean absolutely no offense to you or to your listeners. But one thing is the reporters, the same we have in counterterrorism and intelligence as the same thing we have in writing, consider the source, the people who are seeing these things have never set foot in Afghanistan. And they’re, they’re grasping at straws, trying to come up with an angle to write a story that will sell, and that will that will that that will appeal to people’s. Oh yeah, that’s the real reason, kind of thinking. But bottom line. No, the Americans have, if the Americans having serious interest and any any mining interests in Afghanistan than the Americans would have brought in American mining corporations in January 2002 and told them, we just destroyed al-Qaeda in this country. We’ve just ended the Taliban rule and and Hamad Karzai has been installed as the, the new Afghanistan. Now here, here’s all this metal for you to dig up, and you go and dig it. But that didn’t happen.
Honey Smith Walls 30:34
That didn’t happen. All the Taliban had to do was wait for the Americans to leave, and with our sad history of doing that.
Mike Tucker 30:43
Yeah, exactly who was Vietnam. In many ways, and at the same time it wasn’t because we had to strike and kill, al Qaeda in Afghanistan and the Taliban was lashed up, deeply without al-Qaeda, not just Afghanistan but also in, in Pakistan. Now, here’s where, again, I stand against the Pentagon and CIA on Central Asia. In oh nine, the Pentagon and CIA official spokespeople pentagon and CIA, right, which means it’s the official policy of American government is in, in America, sadly, and American foreign policy, still today to this moment, CIA drives the train, and the Pentagon is is on for the ride. That’s it. Pentagon and state are along for the ride CIA runs the train, but, but that’s why, that’s why we’ve had so many tragedies in American foreign policy.
Honey Smith Walls 31:51
Hey, we’re taking a break here but Mike will be back on the next episode to take us on that magic carpet ride to places far far away in cultures, most of us will never see firsthand. But with this spirit of Hemingway firmly planted in his chest, Mike Tucker will make you taste the air. Come back for more on the next Cannaba Verum podcast, wherever you listen.
Honey Smith Walls 32:37
Thanks for joining us today. You’ve been listening to another Cannaba Verum podcast with 21st century cannabis shaman honey Smith walls, about the importance of using safe hemp and marijuana products. The process of taking your records with your symptoms and diagnosis to a cannabis specialist can lead you to the correct cannabinoid therapy for your best results. Otherwise, you’re just your own guinea pig looking for answers without any foundational knowledge or ability to determine the best choices, unless otherwise proven by a reputable third party lab test. Please be advised that all street weed is contaminated. It may do grave harm to a patient with a delicate immune system. (3) I challenge you to check the veracity of my statements in each episode by checking the medical citations posted on my podcast blog at the Cannaba verum.com website, that’s C A N N A B A verum.com.
My friends, before you go. Would you please give Mike Tucker the joy and honor of reading his stories by choosing any of the dozens he’s written, which are now on amazon.com. He fills in a lot of mysterious blanks in history and enlightens your sweet little soul with the truth about life as an American warrior.
Just plug in his name: Mike Tucker and Rogue or Ronin, to get started. Or any of the titles you heard here on Cannaba Verum. These stories are ultimately about love, although they’re coming from one of America’s finest secret counter insurgent operatives. I’ll have some links in the show notes, but please let Mike know how much you enjoyed his conversational series on Cannaba Verum when you order your first book, click on the show notes for all that info. You’ve been listening to another Cannaba Verum podcast with 21st century cannabis shaman Honey Smith Walls, about the importance of using safe hemp and marijuana products.
Mike Tucker book links:
https://www.google.com/search?q=mike%20tucker%20rogue
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Rogue+by+mike+tucker&ref=nb_sb_noss_2
- …all street weed is contaminated: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5022003/
- Handbook of Cannabis for Clinicians, Practices and Principles by Dr. Dustin Sulak – https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Cannabis-Clinicians-Principles-Practice/dp/0393714187 and healer.com
- Certificate of Analysis (COA) https://www.pharmtech.com/view/certificates-analysis-don-t-trust-verify
